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Post by tybalt on Apr 9, 2016 11:36:04 GMT
Target 2% maximum to any one borrower. As I invest primarily on ThinCats I do believe in Due Diligence and based on my performance versus TCLs regard it as time well spent.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Apr 9, 2016 22:04:57 GMT
2 years ago, shortly after retiring and having my financial advisor look at my pensions, investments and available cash, I was keen to improve my savings income. When my bank reduced the interest offered on my bonds, I decided to get into p2p but found very few sites that I felt comfortable with. W, SS, FC and FS became my first, with W getting 65% of my available cash, SS got 30%, FC got 3% and FS because of their lending restrictions on loans at that time got the remainder. This resulted in me having loans on SS where my individual loan investment was as high as 30% of the money lent on that site. As the number of loans on SS have increased, I have / am able to reduce that to around 2% per loan of my total p2p investment. I have withdrawn from both W and FC and reduced my money on FS considerably, with the aim to be out by late May. I have now added MT, FK, FE, ABL, AC, LI and LC to the platforms I have money in. My aim is to try to keep individual loans down to around 2% or lower of my total p2p investment. I currently have 120 loans, although this has been as high as 160 and I see this eventually stabilising at around 140 on 7 platforms. That sounds like a lot of hard work, good job you are retired.
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Post by thep2pinvestor on Apr 10, 2016 15:28:06 GMT
I think diversification needs to take into consideration risk. I mean counterparty risk. If I have mortgage loans with a LTV < 30 %, I feel fine with maybe 5 investments. If I go to consumer finance like Bondora, and without buyback guarantees, it's probably safe to spread your investment at least among 100 loans. I have spread over more than 200 on Bondora and also on Mintos and Twino. On Mintos I have spread among all the grantors of buyback guarantees.
More generally speaking, I have now 0,5 % of my assets in P2P lending. On operational risk, I think it's wise to have a minimum diversification also. I spread it over 6 platforms and maybe 1'000 loans. It's partially in EUR and partially in £ (I am EUR based; but you never know what happens to the EU and the EUR if a BREXIT happens) I will pass my investments to 1 % in 2 months when I have reimbursments of a couple of bonds. I'm thinking of possibly increasing to 5 % of my overall assets over the next year when I have more and more reimbursments of bonds.
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Post by caveman38 on Apr 11, 2016 9:39:35 GMT
I think diversification needs to take into consideration risk. I mean counterparty risk. If I have mortgage loans with a LTV < 30 %, I feel fine with maybe 5 investments. If I go to consumer finance like Bondora, and without buyback guarantees, it's probably safe to spread your investment at least among 100 loans. I have spread over more than 200 on Bondora and also on Mintos and Twino. On Mintos I have spread among all the grantors of buyback guarantees. More generally speaking, I have now 0,5 % of my assets in P2P lending. On operational risk, I think it's wise to have a minimum diversification also. I spread it over 6 platforms and maybe 1'000 loans. It's partially in EUR and partially in £ (I am EUR based; but you never know what happens to the EU and the EUR if a BREXIT happens) I will pass my investments to 1 % in 2 months when I have reimbursments of a couple of bonds. I'm thinking of possibly increasing to 5 % of my overall assets over the next year when I have more and more reimbursments of bonds. Is that a typo ie. 0.5%. I ask, as I cannot see the benefit in such a small investment over so many platforms and loans. If your portfolio of investments was for £200K, then only £1,000 would be in P2P on you say 1,000 loans. All to make perhaps an additional £90. In essence if the overall percentage of the portfolio made 3% then the difference in getting 12% on £1,000 surely isn't worth the effort. Or am I missing something?
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Post by thep2pinvestor on Apr 11, 2016 18:59:13 GMT
I think diversification needs to take into consideration risk. I mean counterparty risk. If I have mortgage loans with a LTV < 30 %, I feel fine with maybe 5 investments. If I go to consumer finance like Bondora, and without buyback guarantees, it's probably safe to spread your investment at least among 100 loans. I have spread over more than 200 on Bondora and also on Mintos and Twino. On Mintos I have spread among all the grantors of buyback guarantees. More generally speaking, I have now 0,5 % of my assets in P2P lending. On operational risk, I think it's wise to have a minimum diversification also. I spread it over 6 platforms and maybe 1'000 loans. It's partially in EUR and partially in £ (I am EUR based; but you never know what happens to the EU and the EUR if a BREXIT happens) I will pass my investments to 1 % in 2 months when I have reimbursments of a couple of bonds. I'm thinking of possibly increasing to 5 % of my overall assets over the next year when I have more and more reimbursments of bonds. Is that a typo ie. 0.5%. I ask, as I cannot see the benefit in such a small investment over so many platforms and loans. If your portfolio of investments was for £200K, then only £1,000 would be in P2P on you say 1,000 loans. All to make perhaps an additional £90. In essence if the overall percentage of the portfolio made 3% then the difference in getting 12% on £1,000 surely isn't worth the effort. Or am I missing something? No, it's not a typo. It's 0,5 %. My overall assets are more than 200 K though. I am professionally in risk management. That's probably the reason why....
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KoR_Wraith
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Post by KoR_Wraith on Apr 11, 2016 19:48:47 GMT
Looks like I differ from most.
I've went as high as 50% in a single loan (the Wyk**am School loan on AC) because of the solidity of the security, although generally I cap loosely at 10%.
If I assessed 100's of available loans and found them to be of a similar quality to one another then I'd be happy with greater diversification, however, there's more bad than there is good and redirecting funds from a preferred to a lesser preferred loan doesn't sit well with me. I currently follow more of the "put all your eggs in one basket and watch it very carefully" approach. Diversification protects the downside, but also dilutes the upside. Diworsification, anyone?
I suppose it all comes back to risk/reward. I've still got most of my working years ahead of me and no dependents to support (yet!) so can afford to make mistakes/adopt a higher risk approach.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 6:42:09 GMT
Actual position <1.7% with any one loan Target <0.5% Multiple loans to the same borrower vehicle actual <10% Same type of asset limited to < 50%
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Post by chielamangus on Apr 12, 2016 11:06:58 GMT
Looks like I differ from most. I've went as high as 50% in a single loan (the Wyk**am School loan on AC) because of the solidity of the security, although generally I cap loosely at 10%. Diversification protects the downside, but also dilutes the upside. Diworsification, anyone? I suppose it all comes back to risk/reward. I've still got most of my working years ahead of me and no dependents to support (yet!) so can afford to make mistakes/adopt a higher risk approach. Interesting on the approach to the school loan. I avoided it like the plague because I thought the business plan was naive (and so it turned out). I asked questions about it which AC did not like, so they got edited/ignored. My questions frequently get deleted! On the original issue, have been up to 20 per cent on a single loan (out of several hundred), but now the maximum is around 5 per cent on one platform, and 4 per cent of all P2P investment. I really don't believe in an arbitrary maximum - it depends on how well you understand certain loans, and how much risk you are prepared to take. I might add that I am quite risk-averse so I guess I am just backing my judgement.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Apr 13, 2016 15:37:51 GMT
We have about 30% of our investable wealth in p2p, which is a lot but I enjoy the DD (my main platforms are TC and AC) and I have a pension to fall back on. We have one or two exposures in the 0.5% range (as a % of investable wealth) but most are around 0.1% - 0.3% when made; a lot of these are amortising. If you do DD I think the law of diminishing returns sets in if you have too many small investments. The exception is RS where there is no DD and the platform does the diversifying for me.
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Post by queenvictoria on Apr 17, 2016 9:46:23 GMT
I don't really set an explicit maximum % per loan based on the size of my P2P portfolio. Instead, I focus on a max size of 0.2% per loan vs. my overall asset base. Given an overall cap of 10% of NAV for my P2P portfolio, that implies a minimum of 50 loans if I reach my cap. I would argue that somebody with 50% of their net worth probably needs to be more widely diversified on a per loan basis than someone with 5% of their net worth. The reality, however, is that I'm now over-diversified with something closer to 200 loans across various platforms. The positive is that over 80% of the risk is focussed in around 50 loans with the other 150 loans containing the residual. I view diversification as about constructing a portfolio, hopefully still with the same risk-return ratio, but with a lower or zero correlation to reduce concentration risk/idiosyncratic risk. I see little point, however, accepting an inferior return proposition just to create a (potentially) lower correlation. Moreover, given many of my loans are based on property security, I see a fairly substantial slug of systemic risk which is not easily diversified away. Hence I'm currently trying to exit minor positions since they simply aren't worth the return per unit effort and (by sizing) I view them as inferior to the larger positions. For example, on a higher risk platform like SS there are probably now only 5-10 loans I actually want to own. Outside of my P2P portfolio, I have 35% of my net worth in a single fund. Add to that 15% in my primary residence and around 50% of my net worth is in just two assets, which hardly counts as diversified. To me this is balanced by the fact I have more conviction on the single large investment and it's uncorrelated with the rest of the portfolio. I I’m similar in not setting a max % per loan. I mainly use SS and MT – 75% of my P2P is across there 2 sites – I should probably diversify across platforms more. I tend to go in rather heavy on new loans just to get a share and then sell and rebalance once the SM has things on it to buy. In terms of P2P : net worth, in my case it is at just under 10%. This will increase once I can move some ISA money (currently 5%) across but I would aim to keep it at 15% max. My own residence accounts for just under 20% and my buy-to-lets are about 25%. The remaining 40% is in various pension funds mostly holding funds and stocks. I am pretty heavily weighted in property at probably 60-70% to include some of my pensions and P2Ps which are property based. This is high but I am comfortable with it.
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mv
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Post by mv on Apr 19, 2016 8:37:41 GMT
I take a very similar approach to Queen Victoria above. On sites such as SS where interest is taken up front, the chances of an early default are relatively low. If I have money to invest I will do what I can to get it earning interest.
There is a clear pattern so far of feast/famine. People may spend pages and pages of this forum debating/deriding the worth of a patch of scrubland in the arse end of nowhere, but in 3(4,5,6..) months times when 'no loans are available for investment' my experience (so far!) is that it will sell in a matter of seconds.
So in summary, I do pay attention to diversification but with a particular emphasis on how much I am still holding when the music stops. To continue the analogy, I may however come unstuck if the entire party ends unexpectedly.
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