adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 28, 2016 15:00:06 GMT
just a simple way to get voluntarily contributed money straight to the NHS. Of course, there isn't really such a thing as "the NHS". But I'm sure if you phoned the finance office of your local trust or GP surgery or clinical commissioning group, and asked where to send a donation, they'd be very happy to give you precise detail. My local hospital trust has a big link at the top of their website, "Get Involved". One of the sublinks under there is "Fundraising". They even do Gift Aid.
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 28, 2016 15:47:20 GMT
All good.. but who do you think the incentivising/discinctivsing charges should be applied to?If it was going to put in place, that is probably the wrong quesiton. If one was to consider it, it would only make sense to start with the principle of applying to all and then working out what exceptions one might have. A good starting point would be to consider what happens in other countries where such fees apply and seeing what they do and how those work in practise. Also, we have charges for prescriptions but with exemptions: whether those exemptions are right ones or not I have no idea, but again its not a bad place to start from.
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mv
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Post by mv on Apr 28, 2016 16:44:08 GMT
It's only really been since the threat of imposition of the contract that people have been communicating and discussing on a national level and the dire situation with rota gaps has been fully appreciated (its easy to think its just your department or hospital). I feel very guilty for the people who have had operations and appointments postponed. However, a well planned strike day is actually safer than a normal day as was demonstrated this week. Ultimately the capacity will be reduced more if staff leave the NHS I fully agree that the BMA needs to step forward with a clear plan of what would constitute a safe, fair contract. However the government does need to lift the threat of imposition for talks to be meaningful. The big problem at this point is trust. At a time when waiting times for A+E, cancer appointments, emergency ambulances etc are worsening month on month it is difficult to believe that this government is so passionate about the NHS and patient safety that they need to drive through this contract. It is easier to believe that it is in fact a cost-saving exercise (despite claims of being cost neutral) and will allow them to push on to impose worse pay and conditions on the agenda for change workforce (the rest of the NHS except doctors).
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JamesFrance
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Post by JamesFrance on Apr 29, 2016 6:32:38 GMT
Why is it that employees in the public sector think they are entitled to decide how much they should be paid by the rest of us and that it is acceptable to use blackmail to get their own way? It is even worse in France where I live where they are striking to prevent the introduction of measures by a socialist government to increase the level of employment. Entirely selfish behavior.
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Post by xyon100 on Apr 29, 2016 7:50:43 GMT
Why is it that employees in the public sector think they are entitled to decide how much they should be paid by the rest of us and that it is acceptable to use blackmail to get their own way? It is even worse in France where I live where they are striking to prevent the introduction of measures by a socialist government to increase the level of employment. Entirely selfish behavior. Belgium too. The entire public sector was on strike on Tuesday I think. The other sector that strikes regularly is yet another that can hold the entire public to ransom, so that's the buses, trains and all the vital airport sectors such as controllers and baggage handlers.
The strike is flat out wrong, it simply should not be happening. Anybody that unhappy with their job is not being forced to stay in it. If anything would make the point, it would be resignations and lots of them.
The thing for me here is that I cannot tell which side is right or wrong, and that in itself tells a tale. What I do believe is that the NHS should be 24/7/365. That needs to be worked out.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 29, 2016 8:57:04 GMT
What I do believe is that the NHS should be 24/7/365. It's a very nice easy soundbite, but what does that actually mean? What IS "the NHS"? Is it A&E? That's already 24x7x365. Is it a checkup at your local dentist? That's clearly unnecessary and unrealistic. So where, in between those two extremes, do you say "Well, no, OK - 24x7x365 isn't needed there"? As anybody who's ever been or been near somebody seriously unwell in hospital will know only too well, there are a lot of bits of the NHS that already ARE 24x7x365. And there's a lot that isn't. What we're talking about is just jiggling the line left or right a bit on specific services and in specific ways - and a lot of the time, what we're talking about is the availability of services and skills IN CASE they're needed - which'll inevitably mean lots of sitting about un-called-upon. And, at other times, there'll be mad rushes when lots is happening at once. It's like anything - do you set staffing levels to cope with the peaks or to be occupied during the troughs? You don't know which is going to be which in advance. So, at the end of the day, it comes down to how much money DO you throw at it? And, yes, of course that's ABSOLUTELY relevant - after all, the gov't currently spends about £140bn on health annually, out of a total of £730bn - and that's £85bn more than they receive in... There's 65m people here - so that's just over £2,150 each on health, out of a total of £11,230 - with a shortfall of £1,300 each. £53bn, £815 each, goes out in interest on the £1.5tn debt - £24,000 each.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 29, 2016 9:14:11 GMT
What I do believe is that the NHS should be 24/7/365. Is it a checkup at your local dentist? I don't think there's any mileage in bringing dentist into the equation. When was the last time anyone died from toothache?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 29, 2016 9:17:23 GMT
Is it a checkup at your local dentist? I don't think there's any mileage in bringing dentist into the equation. When was the last time anyone died from toothache? My point exactly. Yet routine dentistry comes under "the NHS". So if we're defining the 24x7 NHS as only those bits which could prove fatal, isn't that already pretty much covered 24x7?
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mv
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Post by mv on Apr 29, 2016 10:23:43 GMT
I agree, it would have been sensible for the government to evaluate, define, cost and plan 'a truly 7 day NHS' before hijacking an ongoing contract negotiation which was previously making good progress.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Apr 29, 2016 18:34:23 GMT
The NHS really should be worried about TTIP. European companies took over our energy companies, now the USA wants a piece of our NHS.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Apr 29, 2016 18:34:38 GMT
The NHS really should be worried about TTIP. European companies took over our energy companies, now the USA wants a piece of our NHS.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 30, 2016 7:27:39 GMT
The NHS really should be worried about TTIP. European companies took over our energy companies, now the USA wants a piece of our NHS. Shall we wait until TTIP's actually been agreed before believing the ill-informed knee-jerk panic? fullfact.org/europe/does-ttip-mean-privatisation-nhs/The 13th round of negotiations between the EU and the US only completed yesterday. The results of those sessions will then be discussed and considered before deciding if there's agreement - which can then be voted on both sides of the Atlantic - or if a 14th round is needed. It almost certainly will be, and it's scheduled for July. trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2016/april/tradoc_154480.pdfThe negotiations are nowhere near as secretive as is often claimed, which always makes me wonder why the opponents-on-principle are trying to prevent people finding out the reality. trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=1230
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Apr 30, 2016 7:57:10 GMT
The NHS really should be worried about TTIP. European companies took over our energy companies, now the USA wants a piece of our NHS. Shall we wait until TTIP's actually been agreed before believing the ill-informed knee-jerk panic? fullfact.org/europe/does-ttip-mean-privatisation-nhs/The 13th round of negotiations between the EU and the US only completed yesterday. The results of those sessions will then be discussed and considered before deciding if there's agreement - which can then be voted on both sides of the Atlantic - or if a 14th round is needed. It almost certainly will be, and it's scheduled for July. trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2016/april/tradoc_154480.pdfThe negotiations are nowhere near as secretive as is often claimed, which always makes me wonder why the opponents-on-principle are trying to prevent people finding out the reality. trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=1230Ok let's wait until a deal is agreed before we have concerns and it's too late. From the unions: Gail Cartmail, Unite assistant general secretary, said that it was “a scandal” that MPs may not have the democratic power to stop TTIP, which she said “threatens the irreversible sell-off of our NHS”. Are their concerns a knee jerk reaction?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 30, 2016 8:21:16 GMT
Ok let's wait until a deal is agreed before we have concerns and it's too late. So the negotiations should be done with 800m people in the room; 300m on their side, 500m on ours? That's going to be... practical. A union? Scaremongering? How unusual. Unite have been staunchly and openly against TTIP on principle for several years, agreeing a motion to "adopt a clear position of outright opposition to TTIP" at their conference in July 2014. Odd, that, since it still isn't negotiated yet, let alone ready to vote on by the EU and the US... So they're happy to take a "clear position of outright opposition" without actually knowing what they're opposing? Nowt so closed as a mind... www.unitetheunion.org/uploaded/documents/Unite%20TTIP%20Briefing11-19626.pdfInteresting that they quote that old chestnut about corporations suing governments - they don't actually appear to understand that's always been the case. uk.reuters.com/article/uk-tobacco-idUKKBN0TT1HA20151210 for just one case. Of the four companies named, I count two EU companies, a US company, and a Japanese company. The only difference that seems to be in the TTIP negotiations is that it's highly likely US corporations will be able to sue EU member state governments directly, whereas now it's the EU subsidiaries that would do it. And how many globally-relevant US corporations don't have any kind of EU subsidiary? I suspect you can count them on the fingers of one foot. And, of course, they forget to mention that it'd be vice-versa, too. EU companies would be able to sue the US gov't directly, whereas now it would be their US subsidiary. Again, how many...? But, hey, I don't happen to think it a bad thing that governments should actually obey the law and, if they don't, they should be open to legal challenge. Of course, actually winning any case is the test, rather than merely launching a case. And that would still be down to the courts of whichever member state. So, basically, they're saying that they don't trust UK courts to apply UK law to a case where a US company (with no EU subsidiary) is suing the UK government... But, still, perhaps we should escape TTIP by leaving the EU, then the UK can try and negotiate an equivalent with the US directly (eventually)...? With so much less leverage... Yeh, what could possibly go wrong?
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Apr 30, 2016 8:55:15 GMT
You are so funny, one little comment about concerns of a trade deal and you get aggressive, sarcastic, and rude, bring the eu debate into it, talk of knee jerk action and talk of putting 800m people in a room, how weird.
You could have been polite and said "I think these concerns are unfound because of..." But chose a tone which I think is unwelcome on this site, at least not one I wish to continue with, thank you. Now back to the 4 children and some sense.
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