ben
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Post by ben on Apr 26, 2016 12:27:39 GMT
doing it once or twice will not make much but do it a few times, sell it then buy again and continue and you could make a nice amount with out any risk or very limited risk I think there are ways to fiddle the system, Ben. I just don't think that holding your money in the bank for an additional 48 hours is one of them. There is nothing to be gained from that. I agree if you intend to pay what I meant was that you could easily not pay for it or only pay for some of it, ie buy more then you want sell within the 48 hours so balance 0 and then repeat, keep changing what you hold so getting more interest then what you actually have invested, personally could not be bothered but its possible
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Apr 26, 2016 13:27:01 GMT
This has been discussed ad nauseum. All SS have to do is to check if 'interest earned > 1% of average balance' over the month, and if it is significantly higher (their call) you're gonna get a visit from their 'rectification department'. You may get interest removed, you may get banned, you may get the rules changed .. what you won't get is 'away with it'.
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Post by xyon100 on Apr 26, 2016 13:47:29 GMT
This has been discussed ad nauseum. All SS have to do is to check if 'interest earned > 1% of average balance' over the month, and if it is significantly higher (their call) you're gonna get a visit from their 'rectification department'. You may get interest removed, you may get banned, you may get the rules changed .. what you won't get is 'away with it'. No, I can't see anybody getting away with free interest. Certainly not for long and not for any significant amounts of money. What I would love to see is SS policy for dealing with such people who play the system. I did look through their terms, but I may have missed it. For instance, it seems the OP was "rectified" well within the 48 hours that he thought he had in order to settle his negative balance possibly because he's a new user, though Where is that written down? Now I don't know and perhaps there is clear policy on this, but it does seem a little random from what I have seen.
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Post by scoobydoo on Apr 26, 2016 14:18:03 GMT
Ok, I have had the reply from SS.
Apparently, I've been reading the terms incorrectly.
I thought the 48 hours leeway was on a individual day's investing. i.e. you invest in something on Monday and can payback on Wednesday. But I've been told that you are not allowed a negative balance for more that 48 hours at all, and it's not to do with individual loan investments, and that is why my loan parts were automatically sold off.
I'm surprised that there doesn't appear to be any posts regarding this as I can't believe I'm the only one that read the rules this way and got stung.
How did everyone else interpret that rule or am I the odd one out?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 26, 2016 15:00:58 GMT
The approach taken by SS seems fair enough to me. I always make a FP transfer immediately after I buy something (or within a couple of hours of being allocated a pre-funded part) so the negative balance only lasts as long as it takes SS to complete the account credit.
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Post by retired2005 on Apr 26, 2016 15:06:19 GMT
Scooby, being new to SS myself I must admit that I thought the same way - 48 hours from when you buy a loan part until funding. On giving it some thought I understand their position and have no problem with it - but maybe it could be made clearer somewhere ( savingstream?) |
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Post by meledor on Apr 26, 2016 15:23:43 GMT
The approach taken by SS seems fair enough to me. I always make a FP transfer immediately after I buy something (or within a couple of hours of being allocated a pre-funded part) so the negative balance only lasts as long as it takes SS to complete the account credit.
Agreed. If you have bought some loans what possible reason is there to wait a day or two to make the payment other than trying to work some free interest? The 48 hours is only there to cater for the vagaries of the bank system (though transfers seem to go through in a couple of hours on other platforms during working hours) and weekends/bank holidays along with the account updating process at SS.
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Post by scoobydoo on Apr 26, 2016 15:41:13 GMT
As Retired2005 says, I too don't mind this approach but this is definitely not made clear in their documentation.
I'm not waiting a day or 2 to deposit funds. I deposit next day after investments are made.
This is the example of how easy it is to go more than 48 hours with a negative balance and is basically what I did and it definitely not to get the extra 1p of interest!
On Monday I buy £500 of loan A : funds = -£500
On Tuesday I buy £700 of loan B and transfer £500 to fund loan A : funds = -£700
On Wednesday I buy £900 of loan C and transfer £700 to fund loan B plus previous day negative balance : funds = -£900
If the same pattern continues then I will always have a slight negative balance but I will have paid all individual investments within 48 hours.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 26, 2016 15:45:03 GMT
As Retired2005 says, I too don't mind this approach but this is definitely not made clear in their documentation. I'm not waiting a day or 2 to deposit funds. I deposit next day after investments are made. This is the example of how easy it is to go more than 48 hours with a negative balance and is basically what I did and it definitely not to get the extra 1p of interest! On Monday I buy £500 of loan A : funds = -£500 On Tuesday I buy £700 of loan B and transfer £500 to fund loan A : funds = -£700 On Wednesday I buy £900 of loan C and transfer £700 to fund loan B plus previous day negative balance : funds = -£900 If the same pattern continues then I will always have a slight negative balance but I will have paid all individual investments within 48 hours. Which is why you shouldn't wait until the next day before sending funds!
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Post by scoobydoo on Apr 26, 2016 15:51:49 GMT
Which is why you shouldn't wait until the next day before sending funds! Well, I wouldn't have if their website doesn't tell me that I have 48 hours to deposits funds into my account to realise my investment, every time I buy a loan part.
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ianj
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Post by ianj on Apr 26, 2016 15:52:54 GMT
The approach taken by SS seems fair enough to me. I always make a FP transfer immediately after I buy something (or within a couple of hours of being allocated a pre-funded part) so the negative balance only lasts as long as it takes SS to complete the account credit.
Agreed. If you have bought some loans what possible reason is there to wait a day or two to make the payment other than trying to work some free interest?
Maybe because the privileged few who normally hoover-up everything available haven't got there before you, and, at long last, you've mastered the 'are you robot' quiz correctly but a. you get paid in two days time b. you're withdrawing cash from another platform and it hasn't arrived c. like Billy Bunter, you're expecting a Postal Order any time soon and you really would like to to increase your investment. Amazingly, SS also want you to increase your investment too. Might that just be why they appear to be doing everything they can to keep it viable for both themselves and lenders alike? For the 'man on the Clapham omnibus', a £10k purchase will generate approx. 33p/day, a whacking 66p if the full 48hrs is taken before settling a negative balance, and if the settlement is via funding (rather than through selling down) would only be realised in full if the money was already earning 12% elsewhere. Not, at least for me, worth abusing the system, which is why I always (try to) settle within the 48hrs allowed. Why don't I settle earlier? Usually I do, but as I don't have to, I have no hang-ups over taking what time SS currently state they require. If the rule was different..... but it's not! Where others, apparently, see the use of this facility as gross moral turpitude, I tend to view it as a small benefit, much like a bank allowing a small, free, overdraft...convenient at times, and welcome when needed.
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ianj
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Post by ianj on Apr 26, 2016 16:04:27 GMT
Which is why you shouldn't wait until the next day before sending funds! Well, I wouldn't have if their website doesn't tell me that I have 48 hours to deposits funds into my account to realise my investment, every time I buy a loan part. Experience has probably taught SS veterans never to take too much notice of what the website says, or doesn't say, I afraid. On reflection, I can see, however, that the 'cough up' message received when purchasing on the SM refers to the total negative balance, not what has just been bought. Which just about fits in with what SS are saying today.
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Post by scoobydoo on Apr 26, 2016 16:33:44 GMT
Well, I wouldn't have if their website doesn't tell me that I have 48 hours to deposits funds into my account to realise my investment, every time I buy a loan part. Experience has probably taught SS veterans never to take too much notice of what the website says, or doesn't say, I afraid. On reflection, I can see, however, that the 'cough up' message received when purchasing on the SM refers to the total negative balance, not what has just been bought. Which just about fits in with what SS are saying today. But the message always states 48 hours, so if it was meant to be for the whole amount then if you had negative balance the previous day then it should state that a deposit needs to be made in 24 hours.
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awk
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Post by awk on Apr 26, 2016 16:46:54 GMT
I hit this problem just after Christmas when there was very little up for sale.
Basically, I was buying whatever bits and pieces I could during the day and arranging a transfer to cover it all each evening. However, I had often already bought some more at about 6am before the funds to cover the previous day hit my balance mid-morning. I think I must have done this on a few consecutive days and so I didn't bring my balance back to zero for many days.
I got a "second level" email warning - However, once I explained what I was doing and they realised I wasn't trying anything on, they were OK. I guess it's just an automated system which sends out the emails.
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ianj
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Post by ianj on Apr 26, 2016 16:56:45 GMT
Experience has probably taught SS veterans never to take too much notice of what the website says, or doesn't say, I afraid. On reflection, I can see, however, that the 'cough up' message received when purchasing on the SM refers to the total negative balance, not what has just been bought. Which just about fits in with what SS are saying today. But the message always states 48 hours, so if it was meant to be for the whole amount then if you had negative balance the previous day then it should state that a deposit needs to be made in 24 hours. Well I only said the message 'just about' tallied with their latest comments on the subject. Have to agree its not good for new lenders to be faced with these types of 'inconsistencies'. SS are very good as sourcing loans and paying interest on time, amongst many commendable attributes. Clarity in communication is still, however, a 'work in progress'.
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