phil
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Post by phil on Sept 8, 2017 11:37:00 GMT
The clue is in the General Information of loan 2437319925 which states: "Borrower was originally awarded a contract to design and build a total of 16 apartments by a Northern Ireland housing association. This has subsequyently been increased to 24 apartments by purchasing part of the ground floor, allowing additional access." The borrower could buy another 1000 properties around or close to that, but unless there is a specific written agreement with FS taking charges on them against the sums borrowed for loan 1205065729, it would require a serious and difficult successive legal work to get the additional properties onboard... and if those are also secured against other loans (as in this case) it would be almost impossible to do. How do you know it would be difficult to get charges against the other properties? Can you regale us with your personal experience? Once a debt is established in county or a high court a creditor can apply for a charging order against a debtors properties.
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phil
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Post by phil on Sept 8, 2017 12:44:03 GMT
How do you know it would be difficult to get charges against the other properties? Can you regale us with your personal experience? Once a debt is established in county or a high court a creditor can apply for a charging order against a debtors properties. Sorry, I will stop answering here as some of you seem to have no clue of what happens whn you have MULTIPLE defaults at the same time. As I mentioned the two loans would independently be taken over an administrator, whose sole aim would be to maximise recovery for that specific loan and nothing else. Anything above that achived at auction (eventually) would be returned to the borrower after all fees are taken. Did you not read the part that a charge can be placed against a debtors property? A charge placed before auction would be paid at auction, it would not go to the borrower.
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phil
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Post by phil on Sept 8, 2017 12:51:20 GMT
The upper floors were valued at over £500k, 53% LTV, I know FS valuations are sometimes out of whack but quite ridiculous of you to suggest £60k in an auction. You probalby have not had enough experience of people pounding down properties at auction... I would suggest you follow the development of the KNARESBOROUGH loan on the FS network. That property was valued over 3.8 mil.... However for you to suggest the properties will get around 15% of valuation at auction is ridiculous. Interesting you raise the topic of Knaresborough, if only to highlight the vast differences between Knaresborough and Londonderry, Knaresborough is an unfinished property of a bankrupt and Londonderry has BOI and HA pledging to finance the deal, with the property listed on HA website as an upcoming project.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 8, 2017 18:42:42 GMT
I share this sentiment and also the comments about buyers pounding down prices at auctions
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I have been criticised for pointing out what I see as genuine concerns about K******h and
also the mega expensive house in Devon with FC.
My logic is very simple - why on earth would somebody pawn a house at over 30% when the banks will (and they will) lend at much lower rates subject to LTV etc. Could it possibly be that the banks won't touch such loans as they know this market and as the great song says "Once Bitten, Twice Shy".
I don't touch 2nd charges let alone 3rd ones....
Jewellery, coins etc are easy to value,assess and shift- they don't suffer from e.g. subsidence and not being finished on time etc etc. As has Hor1997, I too have seen unbelievable "horlicks" being made with housing investments etc- I am following K*****h and S**** B**** C**** with interest...just love these forums!
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phil
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Post by phil on Sept 12, 2017 4:14:59 GMT
Did you not read the part that a charge can be placed against a debtors property? A charge placed before auction would be paid at auction, it would not go to the borrower. Ha Ha, ha ha. Ask Mr William Ba***, Esq., of FC loan 1558 ..... I'm not acquainted with Mr Williams, and as for FC I invested very briefly and moved on to greener pastures. I am, however, acquainted with P2P lenders Bridgecrowd who did exactly what I outlined above, achieving the desired results.
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phil
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Post by phil on Sept 12, 2017 4:22:52 GMT
However for you to suggest the properties will get around 15% of valuation at auction is ridiculous. Interesting you raise the topic of Knaresborough, if only to highlight the vast differences between Knaresborough and Londonderry, Knaresborough is an unfinished property of a bankrupt and Londonderry has BOI and HA pledging to finance the deal, with the property listed on HA website as an upcoming project. You should apply more care in your wording and don't count too much on the markets. I have seen things you would not even imagine over the years. So don't discount the possibility of extremly small outcome of an action... So, you want FS to take the properties to auction but you know full well that auctions can result in "extremly small outcomes"? And you tell me to take care in my wording? Wouldn't common sense dictate, given BOI have made a formal commitment to finance and the HA have listed the property as their upcoming project, to be patient?
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phil
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Post by phil on Sept 12, 2017 4:27:49 GMT
However for you to suggest the properties will get around 15% of valuation at auction is ridiculous. Interesting you raise the topic of Knaresborough, if only to highlight the vast differences between Knaresborough and Londonderry, Knaresborough is an unfinished property of a bankrupt and Londonderry has BOI and HA pledging to finance the deal, with the property listed on HA website as an upcoming project. And most of all: always consider the worst case scenario. I, and many other P2P investors, do consider the worst case scenario. That's why we diversify with several platforms across multiple loans, so we don't impatiently get our knickers in a twist when a loan becomes complicated or loses money.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 12, 2017 12:52:49 GMT
Good way of putting it - looks to me as if this project is drifting all over the place and FS are simply watching it happen without actually taking control. Not sure how much this Housing Association knows about development ; some (note I say "some" ) of them have chairmen being paid stupid money whilst being clueless). Whatever the timing seems to be all wrong to me and alarm bells are ringing in my lug-holes
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phil
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Post by phil on Sept 12, 2017 14:27:57 GMT
So, you want FS to take the properties to auction but you know full well that auctions can result in "extremly small outcomes"? And you tell me to take care in my wording? Wouldn't common sense dictate, given BOI have made a formal commitment to finance and the HA have listed the property as their upcoming project, to be patient? I think you don't know BOI at all.... It is over a year that we hear about their 'committment' (in principle), but no real money out. Also, read the updates... Once again it seems that the BOI route has been put aside for a new private interest... You're mistaken yet again, it's two weeks.....28/08/2017: We have received a copy of a formal commitment from BOI to refinance part of the developments. In addition to the commitment from BOI, the borrower is also in discussion with a private investor who is looking to refinance the remaining development projects. How do you equate a formal commitment received two weeks ago to be an agreement in principle of a year ago? How do you work out that the BOI have been placed aside for new private investor when clearly they are in addition to the new PI? BOI can't give the money until HA want to take it and at the moment, through absolutely no fault of the borrower, the HA are dragging their feet whilst they complete other projects. Meanwhile you want to breeze in, upset the apple cart and run the risk of our security being pounded down to 15% of valuation in an auction.
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phil
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Post by phil on Sept 12, 2017 14:52:23 GMT
So, you want FS to take the properties to auction but you know full well that auctions can result in "extremly small outcomes"? And you tell me to take care in my wording? Wouldn't common sense dictate, given BOI have made a formal commitment to finance and the HA have listed the property as their upcoming project, to be patient? Finally you don't understand much of what I say. I am very well diversified and could wait with ZERO PROBLEMS AND ZERO COMPLAINTS EVEN 30 YEARS, provided the loan maintains the same risk characteristics I signed up to, i.e. an LTV below 70%. That is the KEY FACTOR that any broker/funding company MUST maintain fixed and FS is not doing it at all. So, if FS did what it should do, i.e. extend the loan ONLY and exclusively against additional guarantees, I would have no problems at all. i have problems when a 6-months loan becomes an infinite line of credit, with zero additional guarantees and an LTV shooting up so much that every additional day will become a problem for the full recovery in case of default... The LTV is still less than 70%, the accrued interest isn't a loan, it's a reward for our risk taking. The KEY FACTOR for me is return of capital, if a loan goes bad but all capital is returned then I've escaped the consequence of risk even if I didn't get a reward. As for a fixed six month loan infinite line of credit, when did you lose sight of the fact that this site operates as a pawn shop by taking security based solely on the LTV with no heed whatsoever to the borrowers credit history or ability to provide further guarantees. If you can't deal with that then perhaps fixed term 1% rate Bsoc will be your cup of tea. Wouldn't common sense dictate, given BOI have made a formal commitment to finance and the HA have listed the property as their upcoming project, to wait for a conclusion rather than hammer in and risk a loss in capital as well as all of the interest?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Sept 12, 2017 18:35:59 GMT
Post removed. Personal attacks are unacceptable. They don't help the debate much either.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 13, 2017 11:38:15 GMT
I think you don't know BOI at all.... It is over a year that we hear about their 'committment' (in principle), but no real money out. Also, read the updates... Once again it seems that the BOI route has been put aside for a new private interest... You're mistaken yet again, it's two weeks.....28/08/2017: We have received a copy of a formal commitment from BOI to refinance part of the developments. In addition to the commitment from BOI, the borrower is also in discussion with a private investor who is looking to refinance the remaining development projects. How do you equate a formal commitment received two weeks ago to be an agreement in principle of a year ago? At the risk of sticking an oar in where it really isn't needed or wanted... Maybe it's just playing with words, but the only date I think I know is that the fundingsecure update was posted two weeks ago. The update doesn't make clear to me when FS actually received the copy of the BoI commitment. (It could have been some time ago, couldn't it?) And no matter when it actually was received, isn't the date the BoI commitment was made the critical date for this discussion? Is there a chance that the 'commitment' referred to is no more recent than the one the BoI made a year ago? I'm in a number of these loans, and I'm still hoping that they do work out OK in the end. If the updates are a realistic report of the situation, I certainly do not want FS to call in the receivers and have the properties sold at 'fire sale' prices. I do wonder, though, where the money to pay all the accruing interest is going to come from. Is it going to come out of the profit the borrower was hoping to make on the deals? (I can't imagine that the BoI will lend the HA more against these properties just because the development is delayed.) Does the borrower have an agreement with the HA that they'll pay more for the properties because of the delay? I feel like I don't have a clue what's actually happening, but perhaps it isn't important as long as FS are on top of things.
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phil
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Post by phil on Sept 13, 2017 16:05:34 GMT
You're mistaken yet again, it's two weeks.....28/08/2017: We have received a copy of a formal commitment from BOI to refinance part of the developments. In addition to the commitment from BOI, the borrower is also in discussion with a private investor who is looking to refinance the remaining development projects. How do you equate a formal commitment received two weeks ago to be an agreement in principle of a year ago? At the risk of sticking an oar in where it really isn't needed or wanted... Maybe it's just playing with words, but the only date I think I know is that the fundingsecure update was posted two weeks ago. The update doesn't make clear to me when FS actually received the copy of the BoI commitment. (It could have been some time ago, couldn't it?) And no matter when it actually was received, isn't the date the BoI commitment was made the critical date for this discussion? Is there a chance that the 'commitment' referred to is no more recent than the one the BoI made a year ago? I'm in a number of these loans, and I'm still hoping that they do work out OK in the end. If the updates are a realistic report of the situation, I certainly do not want FS to call in the receivers and have the properties sold at 'fire sale' prices. I do wonder, though, where the money to pay all the accruing interest is going to come from. Is it going to come out of the profit the borrower was hoping to make on the deals? (I can't imagine that the BoI will lend the HA more against these properties just because the development is delayed.) Does the borrower have an agreement with the HA that they'll pay more for the properties because of the delay? AFAIC your oar is most welcome given your measured words and pertinent points. The BOI formal commitment is a recent result of the discussions in July/August, I have been informed by FS. According to HA website they currently have 27 developments undergoing construction and a dozen in the pipeline, including ours. They are busy and it seems they are certainly not going to put Mr Hor1997, our borrower or FS interests above their own self interest in starting development before they are good and ready. As you astutely remarked, we certainly don't want the costs of receivers and a fire sale if this matter can be concluded as originally planned. Regarding our interest payments, my opinion is that the borrower has added enough value to the property through the granting of planning permission to meet the extra costs and still make a profit. As I pointed out to Mr Hor1997 (he blatantly ignored me), this borrower has delivered precisely what he'd said he'd deliver, unlike our borrowers in Knaresborough and Whitehaven. This borrower should not be actioned against until it has been ascertained BOI and HA are going to abandon the deal. At this present time all indication is that the deal will be honoured.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 13, 2017 16:37:00 GMT
The BOI formal commitment is a recent result of the discussions in July/August, I have been informed by FS. : Thanks for that info. It is most encouraging.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Nov 23, 2017 22:05:09 GMT
Hi fundingsecure , we had confirmation a month and a day ago that the holy trinity of the bank finance, private finance, and the HA contract were all 'in place'. Does that all still stand, and do we have a firm date for redemption/renewal on any of the 'Derrys' yet? |
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