j
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Post by j on Apr 2, 2014 22:36:13 GMT
Somehow I think this offer will not work out for me. I'm going to sell parts in loans I'm a bit over weighted in & pick up others (if they ever become available in next 4 weeks) on AM. By the time you deduct the two, there will probably not be much between them, simply due to lack of availability on AM. Certainly don't want to be lumbered with more Eppy units without knowing what's in the pipeline in the next couple of weeks just for the sake of a few tens of pounds. Better keep some cash back just in case
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 2, 2014 23:01:25 GMT
 Wrong thread. Moved it.
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mikes1531
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Cashback
Apr 2, 2014 23:10:10 GMT
j likes this
Post by mikes1531 on Apr 2, 2014 23:10:10 GMT
I'm going to sell parts in loans I'm a bit over weighted in & pick up others (if they ever become available in next 4 weeks) on AM. Unless you're really worried about over exposure, I'd do it in the opposite order. I'd sell just a enough parts that there's a bit of cash available in the account. Then I'd set up AI to buy all the loans I'd like more of. And then I'd wait and see what happens. There'd be little point in selling more parts until the amount of cash drops to the point where it couldn't take advantage of any AM opportunities. As more and more lenders set up AI instructions, I expect purchasing activity for those trying to buy will drop to a pretty low level. But that's just a guess on my part.
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Post by chris on Apr 3, 2014 6:18:30 GMT
I had thought that AC were a lot more careful than this. However, a question: I will be selling some Leeds (some gone already) to pay for my non cash back qualifying shadow bids due soon on auctions starting in February/March. Will that Leeds money be deducted from the new money I invest during April for cashback purposes(but haven't transferred in yet)? This will be a four figure sum so I need to know. Can we please have an indication on our dashboards showing an accumulating total of investment qualifying for cashback. I'd hate to be told on 1 May that I'd invested a new £9999 when I'm aiming at £10,000!!! Sales from the aftermarket will not count as new funds into the platform as it will not represent additional commitment to the platform. Loan repayments and new funds transferred in that are then committed to be lent via the primary or secondary markets are the funds being counted. I'll see if I can add a total to the dashboard, that's not something we'd considered but I can see how it would be useful. It's not quick to calculate so we'd have to cache the figure and update it every 15 minutes or so (depending on the final speed of the algorithm).
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Post by chris on Apr 3, 2014 6:21:41 GMT
I think the 2nd of April issue comes from trying to keep everything legal and above board, specially now we're being watched by the regulator! They can't retrospectively cancel or modify the terms of an offer, but they can exercise their right to terminate the offer at any time. So the offer that ran from 1st-2nd is exactly as it was, and if anyone had managed to exploit the loophole, AC would have had to honour it. The new offer from the 2nd closes the loophole and makes clearer which bids will be counted, but is otherwise the same. This is a valid point, but I'd hope AC won't consider the offers to be completely separate. Consider the case of a lender who bought £9k of parts on the AM on 1/Apr, and buys £9k more later in April. I think they should qualify for the £10+k cashback rate of 0.75%, but a strict interpretation as two separate offers would mean they'd only qualify for the 0.5% cashback rate, which doesn't strike me as fair. Any transactions occurring on the 1st - 2nd whilst the original offer was running will count toward that promotion. Any occurring after that until the end of the month will count toward the new promotion. There are legal requirements that we need to adhere to.
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markr
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Post by markr on Apr 3, 2014 7:36:26 GMT
Sales from the aftermarket will not count as new funds into the platform as it will not represent additional commitment to the platform. Loan repayments and new funds transferred in that are then committed to be lent via the primary or secondary markets are the funds being counted. Hehe, I bet you all regret starting this now! I had a balance in my holding account on the 2nd, will that count assuming I lend it out in the offer period?
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Post by chris on Apr 3, 2014 7:38:17 GMT
Yes, it's all governed by investments made less loan units sold.
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j
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Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Apr 3, 2014 8:01:07 GMT
I'm going to sell parts in loans I'm a bit over weighted in & pick up others (if they ever become available in next 4 weeks) on AM. Unless you're really worried about over exposure, I'd do it in the opposite order. I'd sell just a enough parts that there's a bit of cash available in the account. Then I'd set up AI to buy all the loans I'd like more of. And then I'd wait and see what happens. There'd be little point in selling more parts until the amount of cash drops to the point where it couldn't take advantage of any AM opportunities. As more and more lenders set up AI instructions, I expect purchasing activity for those trying to buy will drop to a pretty low level. But that's just a guess on my part. Good advice which I'll take on board 
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Post by andrewholgate on Apr 3, 2014 8:08:25 GMT
As you’ll have seen, we’re giving bigger returns to reward those who have been loyal to Assetz Capital in the past year Andrew, please correct me if I am wrong but my reading of your offer is that it will benefit only those who have new cash available to invest during April and not those who have been loyal to AC for the past year and are already fully invested. As I see it, opportunists, who have had their monies invested elsewhere, are going to plough all they can in during April to attract the bonus and then immediately start withdrawing it in May! If it was a true loyalty bonus then surely some sort of monthly weighted average balance would be more reflective of the value you place on your loyal investors. I'm sorry you feel that way. What seems fair to someone is deemed unfair by others. We have put the offer out as it stands and it won't be changing as it is the simplest and fairest way to reward those who have already invested with us. Andrew
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 3, 2014 8:49:02 GMT
Yes, it's all governed by investments made less loan units sold. This statement does still hold an ambiguity. I put in an upfront new £10000 and invest it in new and aftermarket units. Jolly good. £10,000 x 0.75% cashback. But if I sell £1000 Leeds units to pay my March shadow commitments, does that mean I will then get £9000 x 0.5% cashback? (Despite the new money total) That would mean I couldn't sell anything on the aftermarket for any purpose for the whole of April. All bills would have to be paid with new money on top to retain the (above) 0.75% status. Sorry to be pedantic; I think we need to know.
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Post by chris on Apr 3, 2014 9:47:57 GMT
Yes, it's all governed by investments made less loan units sold. This statement does still hold an ambiguity. I put in an upfront new £10000 and invest it in new and aftermarket units. Jolly good. £10,000 x 0.75% cashback. But if I sell £1000 Leeds units to pay my March shadow commitments, does that mean I will then get £9000 x 0.5% cashback? (Despite the new money total) That would mean I couldn't sell anything on the aftermarket for any purpose for the whole of April. All bills would have to be paid with new money on top to retain the (above) 0.75% status. Sorry to be pedantic; I think we need to know. It's your net total invested in the platform as new investment. Let's say you have £1,000 invested in March, and then transfer another £2,000. You use this £2,000 to place bids and buy loan units. At the end of the month your net total will be £2k. If you have one of your loans repay £200 in April and you take that money out of the platform your net total will still be £2k. If you re-invest that £200 by placing bids or buying loan units then your total will be £2.2k. As per my previous description of shadow bidding the point at which you make the commitment to invest, rather than when you stump up the cash, is the point at which the bid is counted. So if you sell your another £500 of previous loan units in order to pay off some shadow bids then that comes off your total, reducing it to £1.7k but the shadow bids do not count as new investments. The net total you are committing to the platform has not increased, it's just been moved from one loan to another. I can see how that could be painted as unfair, but technically in this example you are already £500 down on your cash position and you need to make that up before you are putting more money in. This is my interpretation anyway, hopefully andrewholgate will confirm.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 3, 2014 9:57:48 GMT
Thank you Chris. That's what I thought you were implying (now saying). I shall have to make sure I don't sell anything for any reason now until May 1. I'm already £1000 down on the cashback stakes because I paid for Wrexham with Leeds units on 2 April.  I'll have to put £11K in now to end up with a £10K qualifying cashback investment.  |
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 3, 2014 15:58:34 GMT
This is a valid point, but I'd hope AC won't consider the offers to be completely separate. Consider the case of a lender who bought £9k of parts on the AM on 1/Apr, and buys £9k more later in April. I think they should qualify for the £10+k cashback rate of 0.75%, but a strict interpretation as two separate offers would mean they'd only qualify for the 0.5% cashback rate, which doesn't strike me as fair. Any transactions occurring on the 1st - 2nd whilst the original offer was running will count toward that promotion. Any occurring after that until the end of the month will count toward the new promotion. There are legal requirements that we need to adhere to. I doubt there is anything in the legal requirements that would stop AC from paying out more than strictly required by the Ts&Cs, even if the two offers do need to be treated separately. As someone who invested a four-figure sum into loan parts on 1/Apr and therefore will be earning a cashback of only 0.5% when I expect my total investment over the whole month of April to be a five-figure sum that should earn 0.75%, I am rather disappointed -- to say the least -- by AC's reaction to this mess of their own creation.
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Post by chris on Apr 3, 2014 16:19:57 GMT
Any transactions occurring on the 1st - 2nd whilst the original offer was running will count toward that promotion. Any occurring after that until the end of the month will count toward the new promotion. There are legal requirements that we need to adhere to. I doubt there is anything in the legal requirements that would stop AC from paying out more than strictly required by the Ts&Cs, even if the two offers do need to be treated separately. As someone who invested a four-figure sum into loan parts on 1/Apr and therefore will be earning a cashback of only 0.5% when I expect my total investment over the whole month of April to be a five-figure sum that should earn 0.75%, I am rather disappointed -- to say the least -- by AC's reaction to this mess of their own creation. Sorry, I obviously failed to understand your original post properly so didn't follow your example. I get what you mean now, so my mistake. I've double checked with the rest of the team and we are going to be honouring the amounts from the combined amount, so you'll be earning 0.75% across both offers.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 3, 2014 18:58:21 GMT
As you’ll have seen, we’re giving bigger returns to reward those who have been loyal to Assetz Capital in the past year Andrew, please correct me if I am wrong but my reading of your offer is that it will benefit only those who have new cash available to invest during April and not those who have been loyal to AC for the past year and are already fully invested. As I see it, opportunists, who have had their monies invested elsewhere, are going to plough all they can in during April to attract the bonus and then immediately start withdrawing it in May! If it was a true loyalty bonus then surely some sort of monthly weighted average balance would be more reflective of the value you place on your loyal investors. Andrew, please stop calling this promotion a reward for loyalty when it is not - it is nothing more than an incentive to existing lenders to invest more. I'm afraid I have to agree with enzed. This is a bonus offer for lenders who invested before 1/Mar/14 -- and nothing more. That's not necessarily a bad thing as a follow-up to the offer to new investors, but IMHO the reference to 'loyalty' is misplaced.
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Wrong thread. Moved it.
