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Post by chielamangus on Apr 5, 2014 8:42:31 GMT
"Which is a long winded, but hopefully detailed enough, explanation for the real intent behind my posts.
Notwithstanding that I apologise for causing offense."
No worries, Old Nick. We all say things that are misunderstood/taken the wrong way, disliked by at least some, etc. I am all for people saying what they like, how they like, and others being able to respond in their own fashion. It's part of the rough and tumble of life. (So I would never qualify as a Moderator).
I was really sticking up for the (old fashioned) Wellesley model which suits me. My aim is not to maximise income but something economists call "utility", but obviously there are people who use the forum who get a great deal of "utility" from the investing process itself and chewing the fat over it. I pick up useful information from many contributions and am grateful for them. And there are others where I think "Get a life!". My own time on the P2P platforms and this forum is weather dependent - when the sun shines, the last thing I want to do is to pore over some stranger's accounts, credit report, etc and check this forum for possible useful info. That's why I like the Wellesley model - its simple, straightforward, quick, and certain (as much as anything can be).
Yes, you've guessed it - it's drizzling at the moment.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Apr 5, 2014 8:47:02 GMT
There have been some derogatory comments on other sites (AC, I think it was) about ignorant savers choosing the Wellesley or Ratesetter model - they don't have the sophistication to invest wisely in AC or FC, apparently - but I see it as reclaiming my life. Far too much time has to been spent appraising the proposals and monitoring events. Yes, returns on capital are higher, but taking account of returns to labour I see Wellesley as The 'derogatory' comments on the AC site .... ....is a long winded, but hopefully detailed enough, explanation for the real intent behind my posts. Notwithstanding that I apologise for causing offense. Apology axepted, at least it took longer than 32 seconds to read. But I would've rathered a new thread perhaps in the Test Area
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Post by oldnick on Apr 5, 2014 9:30:59 GMT
"Which is a long winded, but hopefully detailed enough, explanation for the real intent behind my posts. Notwithstanding that I apologise for causing offense." No worries, Old Nick. We all say things that are misunderstood/taken the wrong way, disliked by at least some, etc. I am all for people saying what they like, how they like, and others being able to respond in their own fashion. It's part of the rough and tumble of life. (So I would never qualify as a Moderator). I was really sticking up for the (old fashioned) Wellesley model which suits me. My aim is not to maximise income but something economists call "utility", but obviously there are people who use the forum who get a great deal of "utility" from the investing process itself and chewing the fat over it. I pick up useful information from many contributions and am grateful for them. And there are others where I think "Get a life!". My own time on the P2P platforms and this forum is weather dependent - when the sun shines, the last thing I want to do is to pore over some stranger's accounts, credit report, etc and check this forum for possible useful info. That's why I like the Wellesley model - its simple, straightforward, quick, and certain (as much as anything can be). Thanks for that. I might add that I don't necessarily see Wellesley's model as old fashioned - rather the reverse. If I can compare the development of these products to the early days of the motor car, initially they required a lot of knowledge and skill to keep them in motion, with several knobs and levers that we would be appalled at having to manipulate these days as we unthinkingly get on with our lives - the car being a means rather than an end to our aims. Having said that, many hobbyists either delight (go on, admit it) in spreading the internals of some ancient jalopy around the kitchen table, or conversely, fine tuning a racing car to get the best possible speed from it. Lips are sometimes curled, and the activities of racers decried, without us realising that racing developments eventually contribute to the efficiency of the modern car - be it disc brakes, fuel injection, or better tyres, to name but a few. I drive a modern and efficient car to work, as work is the aim. But, on a weekend, a hard riding two seater with a canvas roof keeps my brain cells alive - comfort and ease are forgotten. I take from one of Chris's asides on the AC thread about Auto-invest that they are also thinking of offering a comparable product to Wellesley, alongside their original fully manual soft top version, and the refined sports saloon that is currently gestating. I'll probably end up driving several types of p2p too - as the mood takes me.
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Post by oldnick on Apr 5, 2014 9:35:06 GMT
Apology axepted, at least it took longer than 32 seconds to read. Is there a competition for longest (or shortest) post? By the way, your cat's come back. You'll find one of your neighbours is feeding it as well.
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Post by henders on Apr 5, 2014 11:18:41 GMT
I like Old Nick's analogy (the car one).
I have plenty of time on my hands and P2P has become somewhat of a hobby as well as a serious investment vehicle for me.
I really like Wellesley and the deposit and go model.
I also enjoy reviewing AC's loan opportunities and making an "informed" decision on which ones to go for.
I also adopt a hands-off with ZOPA and RS.
So far a good mix with an average return across all four of about 7%.
I can see me putting more with Wellesley (and for longer periods) and AC and begin to dribble money out of ZOPA (in the next 2 years) and keep RS going with recycling.
I remain surprised at the number of (generally well informed) people who have no knowledge of P2P (despite all the recent publicity) and think I'm mad to be "gambling with my hard earned cash". (they'd better be wrong!!).
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Apr 6, 2014 11:40:37 GMT
I like Old Nick's analogy (the car one). I have plenty of time on my hands and P2P has become somewhat of a hobby as well as a serious investment vehicle for me. I really like Wellesley and the deposit and go model. I also enjoy reviewing AC's loan opportunities and making an "informed" decision on which ones to go for. I also adopt a hands-off with ZOPA and RS. So far a good mix with an average return across all four of about 7%. I can see me putting more with Wellesley (and for longer periods) and AC and begin to dribble money out of ZOPA (in the next 2 years) and keep RS going with recycling. I remain surprised at the number of (generally well informed) people who have no knowledge of P2P (despite all the recent publicity) and think I'm mad to be "gambling with my hard earned cash". (they'd better be wrong!!). henders what do you think of the possibility of a black swan event in p2p that knocks it sideways. Someone suggested it might be a p2p set up that is a p0n2i scheme, a fraud from the beginning. Burny-Madof, incorrect spelling on purpose
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Post by henders on Apr 6, 2014 18:23:37 GMT
Do you know something the rest of us don't?
The whole thing about a "black swan event" is it is totally unforeseen so, in that context, anything is possible and such an event could impact on, let's say; property ownership, pension funds, employment.
We may all look back in a few years and be saying "how could we have been so stupid; it's obvious this was some sort of con!".
I prefer to think it's more like; mobile phones, the PC and the Internet where naysayers were saying this will never catch on but clever people saw the future and invested in Microsoft, Vodafone and Google and we look back now and say it was obvious that this would boom.
So are we visionaries or mug punters?
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Post by andrewholgate on Apr 7, 2014 14:57:34 GMT
With the dramatic change in the loan book, and all my investments officially loaned out, I'm giving W a vote of confidence by sending across more money. Goodbye Ratesetter, Hello Wellesley! There have been some derogatory comments on other sites (AC, I think it was) about ignorant savers choosing the Wellesley or Ratesetter model - they don't have the sophistication to invest wisely in AC or FC, apparently - but I see it as reclaiming my life. Far too much time has to be spent appraising the proposals and monitoring events. Yes, returns on capital are higher, but taking account of returns to labour I see Wellesley as the most efficient vehicle at present. I had a surpise this morning with Ratesetter when money I thought was safely invested for a year suddenly turned up in my holding account. Even though it is called a "Bond" it can actually be redeemed anytime by the borrower. So more hassle to reinvest it at a time when rates are much lower than the previous rate. So that money will be with W on Monday. @chielmangus - Please can you highlight where AC has made "derogatory comments" against Wellesley. This is quite a libelous comment which I take very seriously. For the record, AC welcomes new entrants to the market and the Wellesley model offers a new perspective on how P2P can be done.
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oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 7, 2014 15:25:41 GMT
I don't think it was AC making derogatory comments. It was another forum member making remarks about other investors' investment "know how", posted initially on the AC section (need to check that). See last post on p1 of this thread.
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Post by oldnick on Apr 7, 2014 15:45:08 GMT
I don't think it was AC making derogatory comments. It was another forum member making condescending remarks about other investors' investment "know how", posted initially on the AC section (need to check that). Calm down everyone! The remarks that C found 'condescending' were expanded on by me, the perpetrator, and C accepted the explanation and my apology. Wellesley were not mentioned in my remarks, C dragged them into it, but he didn't, I think, mean that the remarks had come from AC at all, but rather from a thread that was discussing an aspect of AC's new AI. Does that settle the matter?
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Post by oldnick on Apr 7, 2014 15:56:05 GMT
I've sent a PM to both Andrew and Cielamangus about this so I hope that we will be able to publicly settle the matter amicably quite soon...
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Post by oldnick on Apr 7, 2014 16:13:04 GMT
I've now found my second post that did in fact drag Wellesley into the discussion, but not in a way that was derogatory to them or AC I believe. Why would it offend either party to point out that one of them is DIFFERENT from the other - horses for courses and all that? And why would it offend a member of the public to suggest that some of them PROBABLY have no wish to get involved in the RELATIVELY more complicated product provided by Wellesley, never mind AC? Am I missing something here guys?
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Post by andrewholgate on Apr 7, 2014 16:34:28 GMT
Explanation accepted. The post came across as AC having said comments about W&C, which has never been the case.
A
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Post by oldnick on Apr 7, 2014 16:49:55 GMT
Explanation accepted. The post came across as AC having said comments about W&C, which has never been the case. A Thanks Andrew, I'd say I'm going to shut up now so I don't cause any more offence, but what are the chances?
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Post by andrewholgate on Apr 7, 2014 17:01:42 GMT
Explanation accepted. The post came across as AC having said comments about W&C, which has never been the case. A Thanks Andrew, I'd say I'm going to shut up now so I don't cause any more offence, but what are the chances? I'll stay on the right side of the law and reserve my right to remain silent on that one.
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