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Post by gaspilot on Jun 5, 2016 19:02:01 GMT
Just started to look at this forum over the last couple of days, I think there is a very good chance we will all get our money back, if we do not get the interest then OK so what. That's all part and parcel of playing this game, we take the chance and accept the outcome, we all know the risks....Has anyone given the owners of the garden centre a second thought, they will loose everything and i do not think it was through there own fault. Some people just want to feel sorry for themselves because they might loose a few quid interest. I wish they would behave and grow up, accept it and move on. Selfishness is one of my pet hates Agreed on your point about interest However, I did some research on the borrower before and after the default and I have little sympathy for them ( see here). They bought the business last year, in the anticipation that they could get PP to turn the site into a holiday park; as far as I can see they had little to no interest in the garden centre. When PP was withdrawn (the borrower knew that PP was going to be refused) they simply wanted rid of the site, and then eventually I think they wiped their hands of it and simply to Lendy Ltd they can have it. There was some correspondence between the borrower and the planners available online (some of it has been removed) and he was bullish and dismissive of the local concerns; at the end of the day, I think he just threw his toys out of the pram. I might have missed this but what did the borrower's company pay for the business last year? Surely they didn't borrow 100% from Lendy Ltd to purchase the property. I'm assuming the company has lost a fair amount of money in the process?
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
Posts: 2,853 
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Post by cooling_dude on Jun 5, 2016 19:05:56 GMT
Agreed on your point about interest However, I did some research on the borrower before and after the default and I have little sympathy for them ( see here). They bought the business last year, in the anticipation that they could get PP to turn the site into a holiday park; as far as I can see they had little to no interest in the garden centre. When PP was withdrawn (the borrower knew that PP was going to be refused) they simply wanted rid of the site, and then eventually I think they wiped their hands of it and simply to Lendy Ltd they can have it. There was some correspondence between the borrower and the planners available online (some of it has been removed) and he was bullish and dismissive of the local concerns; at the end of the day, I think he just threw his toys out of the pram. I might have missed this but what did the borrower's company pay for the business last year? Surely they didn't borrow 100% from Lendy Ltd to purchase the property. I'm assuming the company has lost a fair amount of money in the process? Got no idea how much the borrower bought the site for, but the loan purpose was for "Purchase of property and business assets". I guess that the borrower had some funds available, requiring the Lendy Ltd Loan to make up the bulk of the purchase.
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Post by dualinvestor on Jun 5, 2016 19:08:58 GMT
Agreed on your point about interest However, I did some research on the borrower before and after the default and I have little sympathy for them ( see here). They bought the business last year, in the anticipation that they could get PP to turn the site into a holiday park; as far as I can see they had little to no interest in the garden centre. When PP was withdrawn (the borrower knew that PP was going to be refused) they simply wanted rid of the site, and then eventually I think they wiped their hands of it and simply to Lendy Ltd they can have it. There was some correspondence between the borrower and the planners available online (some of it has been removed) and he was bullish and dismissive of the local concerns; at the end of the day, I think he just threw his toys out of the pram. I might have missed this but what did the borrower's company pay for the business last year? Surely they didn't borrow 100% from Lendy Ltd to purchase the property. I'm assuming the company has lost a fair amount of money in the process? I am not sure we know. They didn't borrow any other money, or if they did it was not secured by a charge on the company. They may have had their own funds or may have borrowed against personal assets. The valuation in 2014 put the OMV at £2.43m but Horticultural Weekly said the new ownwer re-opened the A****** G******* Garden Centre it was possibly closed when they acquired it and they didn't pay the full valuation. In the circumstances one would hope that SS did not advance 100% of the purchase price. Edit Since the purchase the borrower has not filed accounts (not that it was required to) and is now never likely to, therefore unless the Administrator publishes the information in the various documents he is required to prepare we are not likely to find out the purchase price.
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jonah
Member of DD Central
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Post by jonah on Jun 5, 2016 20:51:34 GMT
Naïve question... All residential house purchase prices are accessible from the land registry e.g. Via zoopla or similar. Would a commercial land purchase also be searchable on the land registry?
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Post by dualinvestor on Jun 5, 2016 21:13:24 GMT
I think so. Certainly RICS surveys have them so they must get them from somewhere.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 5, 2016 21:18:43 GMT
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Jun 5, 2016 21:20:48 GMT
Twice in the case of PBL20 (the house and the garden centre are separate documents).
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
Posts: 2,853
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Post by cooling_dude on Jun 5, 2016 22:11:54 GMT
Curiosity killed the cat...So I'm now £6 out of pocket... There are 2 titles under the charge that Lendy Ltd has against PBL20; WSX2****5 (land adjoining T****** Nurseries) & WSX2****6 (T****** Nurseries). On the documents I downloaded, both our borrower (As Registered Owner), and Lendy Ltd (As Lender) is indicated. The amount paid for these are as follows... WSX2*****5
| : | £ 575,000 | WSX2*****6
| : | £ 900,000 | | Total | : | £ 1,475,000 |
Add 12% to that total, and you get mighty close to the loan amount. Savingstream have some questions to answer... 
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Post by dualinvestor on Jun 6, 2016 5:38:14 GMT
Curiosity killed the cat...So I'm now £6 out of pocket... There are 2 titles under the charge that Lendy Ltd has against PBL20; WSX2****5 (land adjoining T****** Nurseries) & WSX2****6 (T****** Nurseries). On the documents I downloaded, both our borrower (As Registered Owner), and Lendy Ltd (As Lender) is indicated. The amount paid for these are as follows... WSX2****5
| : | £ 575,000 | WSX2****6
| : | £ 900,000 | | Total | : | £ 1,475,000 |
Add 12% to that total, and you get mighty close to the loan amount. Savingstream have some questions to answer... There would have been other amounts paid for goods and chattels plus SDLT. I presume the 12% alluded to is the "upfront" interest. However taking all of those into account it would seem that Lendy Ltd did fund most, if not all, the purchase price. Notwithstanding the valuations there is a well worn cliché "something is only worth what someone will pay for it" in this case much less than £2.43 million. If the original vendors had it on the market and could not find a buyer at that level it is extremely doubtful that this loan was ever 70% LTV. Add to that the material mis-statement in the bridging loan particulars about the "full planning permission" which apparently did not exist I agree that Lendy have many questions to answer. On the plus side for those in PBL20 it should mean that Lendy Ltd might be much more amenable to mitigating or eliminating their losses (including interest), for everyone else however until those questions are properly and adequately addressed the credibility of the loan process is unknown.
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james
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Post by james on Jun 6, 2016 6:24:54 GMT
Interesting to compare the description of the owner vs the ownership of the company in the 2015 annual return available at Companies House, 100 shares apportioned as follows:
10 Lendy Finance Limited
30 JF
30 PF
30 WF (typo said 20 originally)
Vs 2014, 3 shares apportioned:
1 JF
1 PF
1 WF
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moist
Member of DD Central
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Post by moist on Jun 6, 2016 6:43:49 GMT
A combination of the overvalue and the 'full planning permission' statement are a bit scary. The planning issue could well have influenced many peoples decision to invest in the first place..
From doing my DD on other loans, this is not the only one that worries me.
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Post by dualinvestor on Jun 6, 2016 7:04:27 GMT
Interesting to compare the description of the owner vs the ownership of the company in the 2015 annual return, 100 shares apportioned as follows: 10 Lendy Finance Limited 30 JF 30 PF 20 WF Vs 2014, 3 shares apportioned: 1 JF 1 PF 1 WF Even more interesting, result of a Companies House search "No results found for "lendy finance"" Of course Lendy Finace Limited could be registered outside of the UK OR it could be a mistake on the borrowers Annual Return about the actual name but it is pretty probable that Lendy Ltd had an interest in this loan that they did not declare. Edit Another question for Lendy Ltd to answer.
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Post by dualinvestor on Jun 6, 2016 7:22:24 GMT
Interesting to compare the description of the owner vs the ownership of the company in the 2015 annual return, 100 shares apportioned as follows: 10 Lendy Finance Limited 30 JF 30 PF 20 WF Vs 2014, 3 shares apportioned: 1 JF 1 PF 1 WF 100 shares? Who owns the other 10? I think james made a small typo, the three Fs own 30 each.
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Post by earthbound on Jun 6, 2016 8:23:21 GMT
Mmm pity i cant change my polling vote, i'm now of the mind to vote 100% capital and interest returned.
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goopy
Member of DD Central
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Post by goopy on Jun 6, 2016 8:24:25 GMT
Curiosity killed the cat...So I'm now £6 out of pocket... There are 2 titles under the charge that Lendy Ltd has against PBL20; WSX2****5 (land adjoining T****** Nurseries) & WSX2****6 (T****** Nurseries). On the documents I downloaded, both our borrower (As Registered Owner), and Lendy Ltd (As Lender) is indicated. The amount paid for these are as follows... WSX2*****5
| : | £ 575,000 | WSX2*****6
| : | £ 900,000 | | Total | : | £ 1,475,000 |
Add 12% to that total, and you get mighty close to the loan amount. Savingstream have some questions to answer... It does make you wonder how many other loans have been funded in this way?
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