merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Oct 8, 2014 17:00:57 GMT
When this kicked off it looked more risky than most but the interest rate at 15% PA reflected this. Now though with the added information concerning planning coming to light perhaps the rate should have been even higher. I suspect that if this loan defaults at the end things will get quite exciting or challenging which ever your inclination!
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 8, 2014 17:04:03 GMT
I suspected that AC has granted the Borrower the option to obfuscate in their answers to hide who they are, in other words the details such as dates and similar are meant to confuse and throw people off the track as a large part of the first few pages of this thread were dedicated to working out who they were. I think there were three possible answers everyone thinking they had it (including me).
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 8, 2014 19:14:28 GMT
I agree with chielamangus 's analysis, and would go further. Having read all the supporting material for this 2013-14 refused planning application, and the earlier 2012 refused planning, I have very real concerns about the as is valuation of the site. Without access to the valuation report, it is impossible to know how much "hope value" was incorporated into the valuation (for those on SS, the valuation report for PBL 004 demonstrates the concept of hope value very clearly - essentially it is a fraction of the expected uplift in value if planning is granted). I have reduced my 4 figure holding down to a single £20 part to ensure I continue to receive AC email updates on this loan. mikes1531 AIUI the council's planning dept are currently considering whether they are going to accept the new application for plannng. Until such point it isn't listed on the council's website. Thanks for the input. I'll defer to those of you who have done more digging into this than I have. Perhaps I ought to adjust my AutoInvest instruction so that it doesn't buy lots more loan parts for me when others bail out!
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Post by chielamangus on Oct 9, 2014 12:22:41 GMT
Thanks for the input. I'll defer to those of you who have done more digging into this than I have. Perhaps I ought to adjust my AutoInvest instruction so that it doesn't buy lots more loan parts for me when others bail out! I hope you deactivated your AI instructions in time! I think the Introducer is putting a brave gloss on the problems of the first application, and I cannot see how the proposal (including the resources behind it) can be reworked to overcome the many objections. The second application has of today still not been "validated" by the local council - so no evidence of its receipt is publicly available. Four weeks to go before the loan is repayable; 12 months for the last planning application to be eventually refused. A valuation with many question marks. The numbers are ugly. I just have sympathy for the borrower who I think has not been well served by her advisors.
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mikes1531
Member of DD Central
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 9, 2014 14:34:54 GMT
Thanks for the input. I'll defer to those of you who have done more digging into this than I have. Perhaps I ought to adjust my AutoInvest instruction so that it doesn't buy lots more loan parts for me when others bail out! I hope you deactivated your AI instructions in time! I think the Introducer is putting a brave gloss on the problems of the first application, and I cannot see how the proposal (including the resources behind it) can be reworked to overcome the many objections. The second application has of today still not been "validated" by the local council - so no evidence of its receipt is publicly available. Four weeks to go before the loan is repayable; 12 months for the last planning application to be eventually refused. A valuation with many question marks. The numbers are ugly. I just have sympathy for the borrower who I think has not been well served by her advisors. At the risk of showing even more ignorance than I've already evidenced... I'm confused by the suggestion above that "the Introducer is putting a brave gloss on the problems of the first application" because I don't see much from the introducer. I know that earlier there was a misinterpretation by AC of what the Introducer wrote regarding the state of the planning application. Other than that, where has the Introducer applied any gloss?
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Post by chielamangus on Oct 9, 2014 18:24:19 GMT
mikes1531 - see recent(ish) notes under overview and look at the planning application and the planning officer's report on the Council website.
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Post by chielamangus on Oct 30, 2014 19:01:51 GMT
Ah ha! Has the borrower been reading this thread? She has sacked her planning advisor and got someone else, but I fear it is too late. Not just a new application needed, but a new business model, and 18 per cent per year must surely be too big a burden to bear.
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kermie
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Post by kermie on Oct 30, 2014 19:03:30 GMT
Update today:
30th Oct 2014 at 16:45
We have received an update from the introducer regarding the position with planning permission.
We are now told that borrower has changed her planning adviser to the gentleman who used to be the planning officer for the local council - this has delayed a further submission of a planning application however, the borrower feels that she is now receiving the appropriate advice to ensure that PP is granted on this occasion.
We expect to hear something further in this regard early next week and will update following this.
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So I guess this is going to be extended/defaulted on 8th Nov...since clearly the lender is not thinking about refinancing. I wouldn't have any issue with extending the term of the loan.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Oct 30, 2014 20:55:45 GMT
Ah ha! Has the borrower been reading this thread? She has sacked her planning advisor and got someone else, but I fear it is too late. Not just a new application needed, but a new business model, and 18 per cent per year must surely be too big a burden to bear. 18% will be fine if PP is granted. If not then it could be a tight one. It's certainly a back to square one for the borrower unfortunately. It's in these circumstances I think AC may wish to consider a new loan from scratch before it gets to official default stage. Just a thought.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 31, 2014 8:41:40 GMT
Ah ha! Has the borrower been reading this thread? She has sacked her planning advisor and got someone else, but I fear it is too late. Not just a new application needed, but a new business model, and 18 per cent per year must surely be too big a burden to bear. 18% will be fine if PP is granted. If not then it could be a tight one. It's certainly a back to square one for the borrower unfortunately. It's in these circumstances I think AC may wish to consider a new loan from scratch before it gets to official default stage. Just a thought. How would the new loan idea work? When there were auctions it was relatively easy...
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bugs4me
Member of DD Central
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Post by bugs4me on Oct 31, 2014 9:21:12 GMT
18% will be fine if PP is granted. If not then it could be a tight one. It's certainly a back to square one for the borrower unfortunately. It's in these circumstances I think AC may wish to consider a new loan from scratch before it gets to official default stage. Just a thought. How would the new loan idea work? When there were auctions it was relatively easy... Yes things have changed but I would have thought you could either extend the existing facility from 6 months to 12. Those wishing not to participate could offer their existing holdings on the SM which I'm sure would be snapped up at 15%. Or start a new loan, existing lenders could opt in or out then top up any shortfall with U/W. The U/W units would soon be offered on the SM. My concern is that these defaulted 18%'s are fine provided they are settled. I've got 4 referring to old loans, now in default, which I was pleased to see the back of on the SM. Will I get the 18% after all the costs - I have my doubts with a couple of them. I have another one which is not trade-able - will I get the 18% once the LPA is appointed? It looks as though the 6 month bridging loans simply do not work. They are too short although no doubt in a perfect world..... Unfortunately we don't live in that perfect world. Just my ramblings. 
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Post by planetx on Oct 31, 2014 9:42:59 GMT
Yes things have changed but I would have thought you could either extend the existing facility from 6 months to 12. Those wishing not to participate could offer their existing holdings on the SM which I'm sure would be snapped up at 15%. But is there any reason for lenders to prefer a new 6 month loan at 15% when they could earn 18% on the original loan in default? So far as I can see, the only person who loses out is the borrower and it's a good way of motivating them to get their refinancing or sale arranged in a timely fashion.
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niceguy37
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Post by niceguy37 on Oct 31, 2014 9:58:33 GMT
How would the new loan idea work? When there were auctions it was relatively easy... Yes things have changed but I would have thought you could either extend the existing facility from 6 months to 12. Those wishing not to participate could offer their existing holdings on the SM which I'm sure would be snapped up at 15%. Or start a new loan, existing lenders could opt in or out then top up any shortfall with U/W. The U/W units would soon be offered on the SM. My concern is that these defaulted 18%'s are fine provided they are settled. I've got 4 referring to old loans, now in default, which I was pleased to see the back of on the SM. Will I get the 18% after all the costs - I have my doubts with a couple of them. I have another one which is not trade-able - will I get the 18% once the LPA is appointed? It looks as though the 6 month bridging loans simply do not work. They are too short although no doubt in a perfect world..... Unfortunately we don't live in that perfect world. Just my ramblings. It does seem that 6 months was a bit too optimistic a time-frame, but at least we get compensated by default interest rates, plus one would think the higher rate would focus the borrowers attention. I expect that future bridging loans might well ask for 12 months where previously 6 months has been applied for.
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Post by chielamangus on Oct 31, 2014 13:06:33 GMT
I am continually amazed at the comments surrounding this loan. Has anyone read the business plan or the planning permission saga? It is now 16 months since the first submission for PP was made, 4 months since it was refused. The new advisor should be able to dress the proposal up to better fit in with planning requirements but dressing a turkey does not transform it into a swan. Meanwhile, the original business is moribund. I took a very small part of the first loan, mostly out of sympathy and hope (yeah, not the usual investment criteria), but I finally sold out when I saw the results of the PP application and the intention to stay with the original idea.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 31, 2014 14:12:22 GMT
Those wishing not to participate could offer their existing holdings on the SM which I'm sure would be snapped up at 15%. As an experiment, I just offered a small amount of this loan on the Aftermarket. It sold immediately. But it was sold in just two bits, which implies to me that there were only two lenders with a target above their current holding of this loan who had any available cash in their accounts. And that's what happened now, when the loan officially still is on time. If a lot of this loan appeared on the Aftermarket following a loan extension, it might not sell so easily. On the other hand, if there's a lot of a loan available then some investors could decide to make a deposit to their account so that they could purchase some of the parts. One of the unfortunate side effects of the lack of instant deposits at AC is that if an attractive opportunity shows up on the Aftermarket it may not be possible to add money into your account before the opportunity disappears, and I expect that inhibits people from making those deposits.
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