bigfoot12
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,817
Likes: 816
|
Post by bigfoot12 on Jul 10, 2016 21:15:38 GMT
Whilst I agree with your logic, my understanding was that students were included in the figures. I seem to recall a tv debate a year or so back suggesting removing students to 'fix ' the figures. I don't know which TV debate you are discussing, but if it is any of those I have seen I hope we don't make any policy based on some 'shouty' person on a TV show. Somebody who arrives in the UK on a student visa, then finishes or leaves their studies, and does not get another class of visa is in the UK illegally. Just as illegally as if they overstayed a tourist visa. I agree with that, and I have spent a lot of time in leading universities recently, mainly with overseas students (non EU mostly) and I doubt any of those would stay illegally. Most get offered good jobs by leading companies without any difficulty. I don't think that the leading universities have anything to fear. It is possible that an increase in overseas students (perhaps because the price has fallen with GBP) will have a temporary increase on net migration.
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087 
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Jul 10, 2016 22:40:51 GMT
I think we need to take care on the (possible) opportunist students' accommodation developments around the "minor/lower tier/ex-polytechnic" "universities". With the withdrawal of subsistence grants, replaced by substantial student loans, the industry has obviously leapt in and said, "we'll have some lots of that cash off the kids and they can live in luxury with flat screen TVs "free" wi-fi etc (I was astonished to read what was on offer at Victoria Hall in Wolverhampton, at a price, and the old Wolverhampton Poly is no Oxbridge, believe me!) ." (We get paid now, they have to pay back the government whenever - not our problem.) Whatever happened to living in "halls" for half the course, then slumming it in digs with Mrs MacSponagal who locked the door at 11pm but didn't charge very much (God, she was nice, but I had to stop her feeding me with Readybrek for breakfast!!!  ) or joining three others in renting a grotty room from the Rigsbys of this world (with little chance of a splendid and sympathetic Miss Jones downstairs) , and surviving on a shoestring, and a bit of bar work? I despair for the kids who leave Uni with a £30-40K debt. me......mor....ies are made of this ...... oop-de-boop
<drink yer cocoa and go to bed Grumps!!> |
|
littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 1,862
|
Post by littleoldlady on Jul 11, 2016 6:29:33 GMT
I despair for the kids who leave Uni with a £30-40K debt.
<drink yer cocoa and go to bed Grumps!!>It's best not to think of it as a debt, but as deferred taxation. They will only have to repay it if and when they are earning enough that they can easily repay it. It should have been a graduate tax from the beginning, I have never understood why not. Calling it debt makes uni a big turn off for poorer families.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 7:14:45 GMT
Sometimes we wander off subject
University accomodation offers an income stream to investors both UK based and world wide. That children are now more spoilt comes from a bunch of things but includes 1) parents from overseas have more money than they used, 2) parents from overseas have far fewer children than they used to, sometimes only one (see china), hence the families future is dependant on the success of one child, 3) for overseas, read also UK.
We have never had it so good. When I last reviewed property as an investment (10 years ago), one that i really don't like, only two areas interested me, farms and forests, student rental. Stick with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by goldservice on Jul 11, 2016 9:03:35 GMT
I despair for the kids who leave Uni with a £30-40K debt.
<drink yer cocoa and go to bed Grumps!!>It's best not to think of it as a debt, but as deferred taxation. They will only have to repay it if and when they are earning enough that they can easily repay it. It should have been a graduate tax from the beginning, I have never understood why not. Calling it debt makes uni a big turn off for poorer families. I think it is called debt 'cos 1) if you apply for a mortgage, the lender will nowadays count it as existing debt; 2) the interest rate that is now charged is at market rate and is payable whatever you are or are not earning; 3) it is money that has been borrowed and must be repaid; and 4) it is ... er ... debt  I think that many graduates would not agree that it is easy to repay it, especially with the recent increase in the interest rate being charged.
|
|
SteveT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,875
Likes: 7,924
|
Post by SteveT on Jul 11, 2016 9:21:46 GMT
Mortgage companies take account any student loan repayments as part of an applicant's monthly outgoings but not the magnitude of the total balance still to be repaid.
And whilst the rate of interest applied to the sum "borrowed" changes with RPI, that has no effect on the size of the monthly repayment (only on how long it would take to pay off in full)
Martin Lewis suggests it be renamed a "Graduate Contribution", which makes much more sense than "Student Loan"
And it's incorrect to say that it's money that "must be repaid" without the qualification "if you are earning above a defined threshold and then proportionate to your income, unless 30 years have expired when whatever remains will be written off"
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 9:38:04 GMT
what is odd is that both systems, education of UK citizens and education of foreign citizens is designed to shove the bright and the best out of the country leaving only the plodders. Now as a method for designing an education to raise the wealth of the nation this has to be pretty weird. Perhaps we could have a system where the bright ones get to pay less and are encouraged to stay..... we could call it scholarship and it might reflect the concept that was in place from about 1500 to 1980.  |
|
locutus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 1,622
|
Post by locutus on Jul 11, 2016 10:05:18 GMT
what is odd is that both systems, education of UK citizens and education of foreign citizens is designed to shove the bright and the best out of the country leaving only the plodders. Now as a method for designing an education to raise the wealth of the nation this has to be pretty weird. Perhaps we could have a system where the bright ones get to pay less and are encouraged to stay..... we could call it scholarship and it might reflect the concept that was in place from about 1500 to 1980. As long as it is for STEM degrees and the like, then I agree fully. Media studies not so much.
|
|
littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 1,862
|
Post by littleoldlady on Jul 11, 2016 10:48:10 GMT
Perhaps we could have a system where the bright ones get to pay less and are encouraged to stay..... we could call it scholarship and it might reflect the concept that was in place from about 1500 to 1980. Post Brexit, the scholarship situation will likely get worse, especially for post-graduate study. For example, the EU funds most fundamental scientific research. The UK would be unlikely to replace that since Tory governments have no interest in anything that doesn't have a clear cut return on capital. You may be right, nevertheless the stark choice we had was a government that we could dismiss if we did not like their spending decisions or one that we can't. Even if you think that the EU's choice of what deserved funding in the recent past has been more to your taste than what you think our own government might have been, this does not mean it will always be so. Also we had to give them £2 for every £1 they deigned to spend here.
|
|
|
|
Post by justdabbling on Jul 11, 2016 12:35:04 GMT
what is odd is that both systems, education of UK citizens and education of foreign citizens is designed to shove the bright and the best out of the country leaving only the plodders. Now as a method for designing an education to raise the wealth of the nation this has to be pretty weird. Perhaps we could have a system where the bright ones get to pay less and are encouraged to stay..... we could call it scholarship and it might reflect the concept that was in place from about 1500 to 1980. As long as it is for STEM degrees and the like, then I agree fully. Media studies not so much.
|
|
|
|
Post by justdabbling on Jul 11, 2016 12:38:12 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 12:53:13 GMT
When I was younger I too believed STEM was the way, then one of my nephews showed me how his useless media studies course was making him hoggins of money, while his brother, with an advanced maths degree, was struggling. Looking back at friends for whom STEM was too much they did tend to be the people who now make Wallace and Gromit movies and earn more than I did. Don't knock Media studies, but you can have a go at sociology all you like |
|
bigfoot12
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,817
Likes: 816
|
Post by bigfoot12 on Jul 11, 2016 13:28:17 GMT
As long as it is for STEM degrees and the like, then I agree fully. Media studies not so much. I think that this was a UKIP policy at the last general election. Even so, I think it deserved further consideration.
|
|
warn
Member of DD Central
Curmudgeon
Posts: 637
Likes: 658
|
Post by warn on Jul 11, 2016 15:11:08 GMT
As long as it is for STEM degrees and the like, then I agree fully. Media studies not so much. I think that this was a UKIP policy at the last general election. Even so, I think it deserved further consideration. Stop Taking European Migrants?
|
|
Liz
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,426
Likes: 1,297
|
Post by Liz on Jul 12, 2016 14:33:47 GMT
Update received from Savingstream. They are making all the right noises IMO. I won't post the update without Savingstream's permission.
|
|
) or joining three others in renting a grotty room from the Rigsbys of this world (with little chance of a splendid and sympathetic Miss Jones downstairs) , and surviving on a shoestring, and a bit of bar work?
