|
Post by thealpineshrew on Jul 17, 2018 15:28:54 GMT
The two options are just ridiculous. More clarification is needed before we can reasonably be expected to vote, in regards of what happens at the end of option 1? Does the "rainy day fund" then comd into play (as has already been asked)? Also with option 2, if we can't trust Lendy to get valuations accurate, how do we trust them with the figures quoted there to within a ball park?
|
|
Steerpike
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 1,687
|
Post by Steerpike on Jul 17, 2018 15:30:19 GMT
In summary, Lendy have made a packet in up front fees, the borrower has had a very low interest loan, and borrowers have lost varying amounts dependent upon when they invested, this from a loan that was presented as proceeding to plan up until a few months ago.
Lendy are clearly spinning option 1 as a method of getting all "capital" returned and a chunk of profit on top, not how it works out for me, I see a loss even including interest received, but this seems to be Hobson's choice.
So it seems that we are looking at about 75% or so return of capital "soon" and maybe the other 7% or so in 12 months, if the second charge or personal guarantee secures any further return which seems unlikely as the first charge didn't do very well.
|
|
Monetus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,179
Likes: 2,961
|
Post by Monetus on Jul 17, 2018 15:31:51 GMT
Remember..... nobody's ever lost a penny in capital!
|
|
zlb
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 332
|
Post by zlb on Jul 17, 2018 15:43:31 GMT
It's only all capital returned, eventually, for option A if one has been invested from the start of the loan. There will be a number who purchased loan parts much later, especially at that time of giving away £50 or what ever it was earlier this year.
They aren't accounting for those who sold loan parts and then bought in later, etc.
Ly are only accounting for a textbook case.
|
|
|
Post by d_saver on Jul 17, 2018 15:44:39 GMT
Whilst I'm pleased to see something going on, for me, there simply isn't enough information in Lendy's email for me to make an informed decision. Lendy Support For option 1, it seems a full and final offer? If the initial valuation is incorrect, why? And, can the valuer or person responsible for misleading the valuer be pursued, and will they? If the further £1m is secured by a second charge and 'personal guarantee' - How much is the first charge and what is the new valuation? The personal guarantee is probably worthless given you see it has no value in perusing the original loan amount for option 2? Will the protection fund be contributing to lenders losses? We need a more complete explanation of how further monies will be pursued for option 1, if at all. I would vote for option 2 if the prior valuation was valid. But you are saying now it is not. I need to know why.
|
|
rs
Member of DD Central
Posts: 467
Likes: 254
|
Post by rs on Jul 17, 2018 15:45:37 GMT
Seems like the borrower is getting a fantastic deal. If he finished the development and sells all the units he's going to be rolling in all the profit. Whereas us lenders have a meagre 2-3% return over 24-36 months. I'll be voting option 2 even though I'll loose a few £k in this sham. Personal guarantee of £1m is easy for borrower as it's obvious that he'll make a bundle once units sold. I wonder what other projects are going to be funded by Lendy with this borrower.
|
|
brianlom1
Member of DD Central
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Posts: 398
Likes: 412
|
Post by brianlom1 on Jul 17, 2018 15:47:08 GMT
In summary, Lendy have made a packet in up front fees, the borrower has had a very low interest loan, and borrowers have lost varying amounts dependent upon when they invested, this from a loan that was presented as proceeding to plan up until a few months ago. Lendy are clearly spinning option 1 as a method of getting all "capital" returned and a chunk of profit on top, not how it works out for me, I see a loss even including interest received, but this seems to be Hobson's choice. So it seems that we are looking at about 75% or so return of capital "soon" and maybe the other 7% or so in 12 months, if the second charge or personal guarantee secures any further return which seems unlikely as the first charge didn't do very well. This is plain wrong, Ly are guilty of mismanaging this loan, they cannot be allowed to get off scot-free. Whilst I understand the desire of fellow investors to exit Ly asap, we should not be duped into voting for option 1 based on spurious and incomplete information. @lendy - I suggest you (i) postpone the vote, (ii) provide better, more complete data, and (iii) include option 3 which involves the platform foregoing its fees on this loan.
|
|
|
Post by panache on Jul 17, 2018 15:47:47 GMT
I'm confused. Why has Lendy agreed to a further £1m to settle the debt? Why not take £11m(presumably the refinance offer) now and £4m in 12 months? If a finance company is willing to lend £11m, surely this only represents around 70% of it's value? EDIT: Option 1 should be adjusted, take £11m now and leave the remaining loan amount as a second charge continuing to accrue interest. I don't see why we should unnecessarily hand over £3m to the borrower. This makes me feel like I am involved in a fraud! The recent IMS report said all was on track and then suddenly we are told to take a haircut without any clear basis. Lendy appear to be using our psychological bias for certainty with limited information to get the answer they want. The right answer is #2 by showing the courage to stand up to this kind of thing. The borrower is liable for the whole amount, why let them off? Except as a last resort, or at least a much better deal.
|
|
Monetus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,179
Likes: 2,961
|
Post by Monetus on Jul 17, 2018 15:51:49 GMT
February 2nd 2018: "The latest Independent Monitoring Surveyor's report confirms that they have no significant concerns regarding the works that have been completed. The Independent Monitoring Surveyor continues to review/monitor works on site."
July 17th 2018: We're asked to accept a £12 million offer on an alleged GDV of £22,650,000 - just £10,650,000 lower!
|
|
rocky1
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 1,951
|
Post by rocky1 on Jul 17, 2018 15:54:35 GMT
dont forget from long ago updates lendy and this borrower are good buddies.as with many other loans we the lowly lenders do not know what deals are being made behind closed doors. you can guarantee though that they will not be in our best interests
|
|
bloodycat
Member of DD Central
Posts: 184
Likes: 84
|
Post by bloodycat on Jul 17, 2018 15:55:27 GMT
Well I think Lendy are screwed on getting any more funding on the other big DFLs that are already on their umpteenth tranche.
I have about 30% more in this loan than my limit for diversification having believed their updates.
If Lendy aren't seen to be strong in enforcing their loan conditions and recovering investors funds due then I can see quite a few other developments also trying their hand to see how little they can get away with actually paying.
|
|
Monetus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,179
Likes: 2,961
|
Post by Monetus on Jul 17, 2018 16:00:39 GMT
The wording of the vote definitely taps into psychological bias - I think we all know which option Lendy would prefer!
"We invite investors to vote on the option they feel offers the best and most certain return"
Option 1: "This alternative results in an immediate and certain resolution" "Immediate cash settlement"
|
|
copacetic
Member of DD Central
Posts: 305
Likes: 666
|
Post by copacetic on Jul 17, 2018 16:07:06 GMT
Whereas us lenders have a meagre 2-3% return over 24-36 months. I've calculated the actual internal rate of return of option 1 in a couple of scenarios: Assuming the £1m is recouped this time next year (by no means assured!): Investing day 1: 2.7% Investing in tranche 11 on 21/11/17 including cashback: -15.0% If the £1m turns out to be worth about as much as the borrowers other promises then:
Investing day 1: -1.2% Investing in tranche 11 on 21/11/17 including cashback: -24.9%
Obviously Lendy has chosen the best case senario for their example and it's abundantly clear from the language they are using that they want you to choose option 1. It's been mentioned in other places that no deal is better than a bad deal. I hope that Lendy can come up with a better deal like they did for PBL120 rather than lenders accepting the first deal that's offered.
|
|
|
Post by panache on Jul 17, 2018 16:07:22 GMT
Instead of certainty they could have emphasised option 2 - which would give them teeth to try and renegotiate a much better deal.
|
|
elliotn
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,064
Likes: 2,681
|
Post by elliotn on Jul 17, 2018 16:07:36 GMT
dont forget from long ago updates lendy and this borrower are good buddies.as with many other loans we the lowly lenders do not know what deals are being made behind closed doors. you can guarantee though that they will not be in our best interests Post the links between the borrower and Ly on DDC for benefit of other lenders.
|
|