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Post by picanto on Jul 25, 2018 19:13:21 GMT
Nearly 3:1 in favour of Option 1 - take the money now! Staggered, just shows how far Lendy has fallen that most (I assume) just want out asap. Expect other Borrowers to attempt the same trick! Borrower on DFL01/02 must be having a right laugh, and lowering his offer. Take the money now and Lendy to take further recovery action to attempt to recover the lost capital and interest. There's a significant difference between that and just taking the money now and that be the end of it. The borrower is still in debt to the investors.
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invester
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Post by invester on Jul 25, 2018 19:13:44 GMT
Unbelievable. I'll be selling all my (non-distressed) loans. I'm done here.
People get stick for coming on here and whinging about losses with the mantra 'this is P2P, you should be prepared for losses'.
Yet it appears I am sharing the platform with 75% of people who are too scared to make a stand.
Not a chance I can invest in any future loans here if this is how the majority of people behave once there are a few problems.
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Jul 25, 2018 19:18:16 GMT
I'm quite frankly staggered by this result.
I expected it to be much closer.
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invester
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Post by invester on Jul 25, 2018 19:25:20 GMT
Take the money now and Lendy to take further recovery action to attempt to recover the lost capital and interest. There's a significant difference between that and just taking the money now and that be the end of it. The borrower is still in debt to the investors. The thing is, look at all the cases that are 'claims underway'. Can you funish me with any success stories where this recovery action has given us a result? The irony is without any track record of success there seems to me there is no significant difference between Lendy persuing a PG and feck all happening. All we have seen so far on some cases is the same old cut and paste for months. I am open to having my opinion changed on this, so if there is a case(s) of successful actions being brought on a PG please let me read them.
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empirica
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Post by empirica on Jul 25, 2018 19:28:28 GMT
I'm quite frankly staggered by this result. I expected it to be much closer. The % vote figure is £-weighted. I'm curious as to what it would be on 'one person, one vote' basis. I'm guessing that those with lower sums invested were happier to vote for option 2 over option 1. If I had £500 invested, I would vote 2. £50,000? Not so sure. I've a feeling I'd go for one, especially if an early investor.
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Carter
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Post by Carter on Jul 25, 2018 19:28:38 GMT
I was concerned this would be the outcome given the general lack of trust towards Lendy. People clearly voted to take the hit now and walk rather than hope Lendy would be capable of delivering anything better. At some unknown point in the future I'll be able to put this down as my biggest single loss.
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Post by mrclondon on Jul 25, 2018 19:39:41 GMT
On a loan this size the majority of the the funding will have come from BH (big hitters / professional investors) who will take a less emotional / more pragmatic view of the situation.
Yes, if a new 1st charge loan of £11m has been offered by someone then it is reasonable to assume the development is currently worth maybe £13m. And yes, by accepting the £11m + £1m proposal it will prevent a claim against the valuers / monitoring surveyors PI insurance. But on the balance of probabilities it is very unlikely that full recovery including of ongoing interest accruals would be achieved. A return of 80% of capital that can be immediately redeployed into an interest accruing project at 10% will in 12 months time represent the equivalent of a 90% return on capital after an extensive marketing period, but with a higher degree of certainty.
I voted for option 1. Yes, its disappointing (insert your own adjective here) that we are where we are, and yes Lendy are at least in part responsible, but that emotional response shouldn't cloud the analysis of where the probability of maximising future returns lies. I'm as likely to reinvest the recovered funds at Lendy as anywhere else, so my vote was definitely not motivated by a desire to reduce my investments with Lendy.
Votes on other platforms (e.g. AC) frequently spring surprises, and generally indicate where BH views differ from retail lenders. The biggest surprise was the vote on AC a few months back to grant the borrower an interest free six month extension to the £6m loan. 100% of the posts on the AC private board were against the proposal, but the vote had a sizible majority in favour.
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Post by picanto on Jul 25, 2018 19:58:39 GMT
Take the money now and Lendy to take further recovery action to attempt to recover the lost capital and interest. There's a significant difference between that and just taking the money now and that be the end of it. The borrower is still in debt to the investors. The thing is, look at all the cases that are 'claims underway'. Can you funish me with any success stories where this recovery action has given us a result? The recovery process takes a long time. I'm by no means a legal expert on debt recovery by a long stretch, but we won't be able to assess Lendy's success/lack of success at recovering debt until the outcome of those loans in "claims underway" has been completed. I do genuinely believe Lendy are working hard to recover the debt in these loans although all we hear about is Lendy not being able to tell us any further information in the fortnightly updates.
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Post by vindhi on Jul 25, 2018 20:29:19 GMT
Does anyone have any thoughts on who Lendy would be bringing claims against to recover the outstanding capital?
The voting information indicates that the 11m + 1m from the borrower will settle their obligations, and it would presumably be difficult to take action against the valuer without the property having been sold, so I'm struggling to see what else they can do.
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Post by loftankerman on Jul 25, 2018 21:19:29 GMT
You can always rely on Lendy, they'll let you down every time. Personally I'd rather see some of my money now rather than none of it later.
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invester
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Post by invester on Jul 25, 2018 22:20:28 GMT
On a loan this size the majority of the the funding will have come from BH (big hitters / professional investors) who will take a less emotional / more pragmatic view of the situation.
I cannot quite buy this. Is a less emotional/more pragmatic response to trust what the platform says without doing your own DD? You would think professionals and instis method would be to make an assessment of the project value and to calculate whether it is either worth selling out now, or weighing up how much this would be likely to get elsewhere if another option was taken. A professional would have diversified massively so only a tiny fraction of their pot would be in this loan. A copy of the most recent valuation would help us decide that, but we haven't got it. In the absence of that, it seems more emotional to be swayed by the promise of money now. If Lendy want the 'option 2 will get less money because the GDV has been impaired' then they should back it up with documents that say so. They haven't. This is even before the type of precedent this thing sets. As we have seen before with other loans in this platform, there is nothing to stop this being drawn out for another month, and then shortly before its due to complete the borrower asks to renegotiate. On a certain level I am not against selling out, but I am against the lack of transparency and information given here that allows users to make a decision, not least also changing the poll length and contents. Likelihood of recovery I think is a bit of a sham - ie you go to an optician, he'll tell you there is a 'good chance' you'll need glasses, and it's not even as if the claims can be verified. The legal case would be so early out that any estimate would come with a massive margin of error. But there, it is used fairly persuasively without mention of this.
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Jul 25, 2018 22:42:57 GMT
I am open to having my opinion changed on this, so if there is a case(s) of successful actions being brought on a PG please let me read them. I'm pretty sure there aren't any. To the best of my knowledge Lendy haven't recovered a single penny via legal means following the disposal of an asset so far. Lots of "claims underway" though
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jul 25, 2018 23:00:54 GMT
"Ongoing."
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invester
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Post by invester on Jul 25, 2018 23:07:53 GMT
OK fine. All we can deduce is that it takes a long time, and is complicated. Having watched the process on other platforms I am sceptical of the power of these guarantees against someone who doesn't want to pay. Look at the platform with (IMO) the best sentiment and their container loan. Quite literally, it has taken years.
And what really is a 'good' chance anyway? People seem to have their own interpretations of this but in reality the meaning can be virtually anything. If you play Russian Roulette you stand a good chance of being killed, but in probability terms that is something like 1 in 6. The platforms give no other guidance when they mention the rather ambiguous word 'good'.
Would this have been a good development to have enforced the security and assessed other options? Without the valuation report I don't think you can say so for sure, only if you are prepared to accept Lendy's word.
It strikes me a strange, that absolutely nobody would lend on a building that Lendy says 'we have no valuation report for this, but trust us when we say we have seen it and the LTV is 70%', but people would sell out based on more or less the same principle.
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TheDriver
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Post by TheDriver on Jul 26, 2018 6:41:39 GMT
Nearly 3:1 in favour of Option 1 - take the money now! Staggered, just shows how far Lendy has fallen that most (I assume) just want out asap. Expect other Borrowers to attempt the same trick! Borrower on DFL01/02 must be having a right laugh, and lowering his offer. Take the money now and Lendy to take further recovery action to attempt to recover the lost capital and interest. There's a significant difference between that and just taking the money now and that be the end of it. The borrower is still in debt to the investors. I would anticipate that will be one implication, mary. However, having accepted the settlement I can't see where any claim would be successful, and as it is "full and final" with the borrower I expect this IS the end of any return - although how long it will remain officially unresolved is open to conjecture!
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