pauls
Posts: 68
Likes: 36
|
Post by pauls on May 17, 2016 4:17:35 GMT
Came across BondMason on my search for platform diversification and herein lies the quandary. BM invest in all the regular platforms and loans we use and invest in. Would a BM account be helping spread the risk?
Does anyone have any experience of BM?
Thanks.
|
|
nush
Member of DD Central
Posts: 396
Likes: 113
|
Post by nush on May 17, 2016 9:37:35 GMT
doesn't BM just add another layer of risk
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,184
Likes: 5,991
|
Post by registerme on May 17, 2016 10:08:20 GMT
Came across BondMason on my search for platform diversification and herein lies the quandary. BM invest in all the regular platforms and loans we use and invest in. Would a BM account be helping spread the risk?
Does anyone have any experience of BM?
Thanks. Well, if you already invest on those platforms it's unlikely to be able to offer much of a diversification play, and you would be paying for it (presumably in the spread between what they earn and the 7% they pay you). Plus, as nush said, you'd be incurring another slice of platform / operational risk. A minor point, on their landing page it says "Your are not lending: BondMason enables clients to invest receivables based on payments relating to peer-to-peer loans and asset backed P2P debt investments". Leave aside that gobbledegook, back in the day when I had to recruit people I always took a dim view of poor writing in CVs, I take a similar view of platforms that can't get this right. It's either "You are not..." or it's "You're not", it certainly isn't "Your are not..." .
|
|
|
Post by propman on May 17, 2016 12:08:03 GMT
A minor point, on their landing page it says "Your are not lending: BondMason enables clients to invest receivables based on payments relating to peer-to-peer loans and asset backed P2P debt investments". Leave aside that gobbledegook, back in the day when I had to recruit people I always took a dim view of poor writing in CVs, I take a similar view of platforms that can't get this right. It's either "You are not..." or it's "You're not", it certainly isn't "Your are not..." . With due deference to an elder statesman of these boards, I can forbid what might have been a typo. But to me this suggests that you would put in your loan contracts. Shouldn't this be invest IN?
does suggest a lack of the attention to detail you might expect from someone that you pay to look after your investments.
One thing it might offer is diversification for someone with only a modest amount to invest and so limited opportunity to diversify. They might also provide a better level of due diligence than some lenders might be prepared to carry out, but that is wholly unproven.
- PM
- PM
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,241
Likes: 2,686
|
Post by Greenwood2 on May 18, 2016 9:11:34 GMT
The 7% seems to be after fees and expected losses, but difficult to know exactly how it works without signing up. Has anyone dipped a toe?
|
|
|
Post by stevefindlay on May 31, 2016 18:19:15 GMT
The 7% seems to be after fees and expected losses, but difficult to know exactly how it works without signing up. Has anyone dipped a toe? FULL DISCLOSURE: I WORK AT BONDMASON Greenwood2 - in summary, we do three things: 1. P2P Platform sourcing and due diligence: we conduct detailed due diligence on P2P Platforms, and will meet the team before we decide whether to approve or not. We have reviewed 70+ platforms and approved 20 to date. 2. P2P Loan selection: we conduct detailed analysis of loans, and select 1 in 3. To date, we have reviewed 2,000+ and approved just over 500. 3. Diversification and administration: we aim for every client to have a minimum of 50+ loan investments, ideally 100+; so that clients are well diversified across (i) loan types (ii) pricing (iii) term etc. We update your account daily so you can see your position clearly. We would be delighted to answer any specific question(s) you may have. In this world of online platforms, we pride ourselves on being contactable: invest@bondmason.com will get you to a member of the Investment team; or call 020 3126 6705 to talk to one of us. Thanks, Steve
|
|
|
Post by stevefindlay on May 31, 2016 18:22:09 GMT
Came across BondMason on my search for platform diversification and herein lies the quandary. BM invest in all the regular platforms and loans we use and invest in. Would a BM account be helping spread the risk?
Does anyone have any experience of BM?
Thanks. FULL DISCLOSURE: I WORK AT BONDMASON pauls - thank you for your interest in BondMason. You may like to see our TrustPilot account, which gives independently verified reviews of our service: uk.trustpilot.com/review/bondmason.comPlease ask if you have any specific questions: invest@bondmason.com or 020 3126 6705
|
|
|
Post by stevefindlay on May 31, 2016 18:38:42 GMT
Came across BondMason on my search for platform diversification and herein lies the quandary. BM invest in all the regular platforms and loans we use and invest in. Would a BM account be helping spread the risk?
Does anyone have any experience of BM?
Thanks. Well, if you already invest on those platforms it's unlikely to be able to offer much of a diversification play, and you would be paying for it (presumably in the spread between what they earn and the 7% they pay you). Plus, as nush said, you'd be incurring another slice of platform / operational risk. A minor point, on their landing page it says "Your are not lending: BondMason enables clients to invest receivables based on payments relating to peer-to-peer loans and asset backed P2P debt investments". Leave aside that gobbledegook, back in the day when I had to recruit people I always took a dim view of poor writing in CVs, I take a similar view of platforms that can't get this right. It's either "You are not..." or it's "You're not", it certainly isn't "Your are not..." . FULL DISCLOSURE: I WORK AT BONDMASON registerme: To expand on a couple of your points: " offer a diversification play": at BondMason we invest across 20 P2P platforms (and growing). Covering a range of borrower types including property, corporate, invoice discounting, asset-backed lending, etc. We are also about to (June 2016) sign up our first non-P2P Platform - this will provide clients with a differentiated source of lending opportunities, not available via any P2P platform. " paying for it" - we charge a flat 1.0% p.a. admin fee. Our clients benefit from any upside vs. the target of 7.0%. To date, our clients have achieved an average of 9.6% gross, and 8.6% net of our fee. " additional platform risk" (as per nush) - I have sympathy for this point. However, client funds are held in a segregated Client Account at Barclays (our company funds are held with a different bank), and like every good platform, we have a contingency plan in place to ensure client positions are managed out in every eventuality. " Your are not" - Ugh. Clearly, we aren't right here! Thank you for sharing the error. We have corrected. This is inexcusable, please accept our apologies. " Gobbledegook" - again, I have a lot of sympathy here. We are plotting a course which provides our clients with the greatest opportunity for investment flexibility and return; which inevitably gets the legal treatment. In short, we are using an investment instrument called a Receivable (this is similar to many other platforms, e.g. LendInvest, MarketInvoice, etc) with the benefit of enabling clients to invest in very small amounts (e.g. £10 portions) but in a short period of time (i.e. to minimise cash drag) and without needing to signup to many platforms or invest from the outset of each loan. The important thing is the client gets the same economics relating to each underlying loan, and are safe in the knowledge that someone will step in on their behalf should the loan default. I hope this additional information is helpful. I would be delighted to expand on any of these matters.
|
|
ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
|
Post by ben on May 31, 2016 18:46:05 GMT
Hello and welcome Steve
Although not had a look yet at your site but just from reading these posts would you be offering an ISA in the future as that might be of more interest to people on here.
|
|
|
Post by stevefindlay on May 31, 2016 18:58:13 GMT
A minor point, on their landing page it says "Your are not lending: BondMason enables clients to invest receivables based on payments relating to peer-to-peer loans and asset backed P2P debt investments". Leave aside that gobbledegook, back in the day when I had to recruit people I always took a dim view of poor writing in CVs, I take a similar view of platforms that can't get this right. It's either "You are not..." or it's "You're not", it certainly isn't "Your are not..." . With due deference to an elder statesman of these boards, I can forbid what might have been a typo. But to me this suggests that you would put in your loan contracts. Shouldn't this be invest IN?
does suggest a lack of the attention to detail you might expect from someone that you pay to look after your investments.
One thing it might offer is diversification for someone with only a modest amount to invest and so limited opportunity to diversify. They might also provide a better level of due diligence than some lenders might be prepared to carry out, but that is wholly unproven.
- PM
- PM
FULL DISCLOSURE: I WORK AT BONDMASON propman Thank you for your comments, and noting the benefits of diversification and diligence. To comment on a couple of points: " invest IN" - thank you for reading our homepage diligently. Please accept my apologies. We have corrected the typo. "a ttention to detail" - we diligently review platforms and loans before the corresponding Receivables are made available to clients. As noted above, we have reviewed 2,000+ loans, invested in just over 500, and our clients have achieved a gross return of 9.6%. We are proud of the diligent work we do; and hope our clients can see this benefit over time. " better level of due diligence" - as noted above, we conduct detailed diligence on every platform and loan. This includes meeting each platform in person and going through their credit process and loan book in detail. This process is led by Stephen Findlay and James Wallis - they are both Fellows of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales (accountants with 10+ years experience: Deloitte and Andersen); and both spent their careers in investment management (e.g. Fidelity and Babson Capital; having invested £1.5bn+). We would be delighted to discuss any aspect of our service: invest@bondmason.com or 020 3126 6705.
|
|
|
Post by stevefindlay on May 31, 2016 19:06:02 GMT
Hello and welcome Steve Although not had a look yet at your site but just from reading these posts would you be offering an ISA in the future as that might be of more interest to people on here. ben Thank you for your welcome! Yes, we will be offering an ISA in the future. We are currently in consultations to see if our Receivables product can be included; otherwise it may require clients signing up to every underlying platform, and also restricting their investment choice. Which we would consider to be undesirable. We aim to have these issues bottomed-out in the coming months (not weeks, sadly).
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on May 31, 2016 19:12:34 GMT
1. P2P Platform sourcing and due diligence: we conduct detailed due diligence on P2P Platforms, and will meet the team before we decide whether to approve or not. We have reviewed 70+ platforms and approved 20 to date. at BondMason we invest across 20 P2P platforms (and growing). Covering a range of borrower types including property, corporate, invoice discounting, asset-backed lending, etc. We are also about to (June 2016) sign up our first non-P2P Platform - this will provide clients with a differentiated source of lending opportunities, not available via any P2P platform. Steve, glad to hear you are only approving a small fraction of the platforms you are reviewing. Do you publish a list of the approved platforms ? Many on this forum spend a significant amount of time researching both platforms and loans, and have a hit list of platforms they simply refuse to have anything to do with. It might reassure people if they saw your approved list of platforms contained few personal pet hates. Personally 20 "approved" platforms seems a bit high whilst we wait to hear which platforms will be refused FCA authorisation and may be forced to cease trading this year.
|
|
|
Post by stevefindlay on May 31, 2016 19:44:45 GMT
1. P2P Platform sourcing and due diligence: we conduct detailed due diligence on P2P Platforms, and will meet the team before we decide whether to approve or not. We have reviewed 70+ platforms and approved 20 to date. at BondMason we invest across 20 P2P platforms (and growing). Covering a range of borrower types including property, corporate, invoice discounting, asset-backed lending, etc. We are also about to (June 2016) sign up our first non-P2P Platform - this will provide clients with a differentiated source of lending opportunities, not available via any P2P platform. Steve, glad to hear you are only approving a small fraction of the platforms you are reviewing. Do you publish a list of the approved platforms ? Many on this forum spend a significant amount of time researching both platforms and loans, and have a hit list of platforms they simply refuse to have anything to do with. It might reassure people if they saw your approved list of platforms contained few personal pet hates. Personally 20 "approved" platforms seems a bit high whilst we wait to hear which platforms will be refused FCA authorisation and may be forced to cease trading this year. mrclondon - that is a very good question. We used to publicly disclose the list of our approved platforms. But then we decided not to, for three main reasons: (i) Just because we've approved a platform, it doesn't mean we will invest in 100% of their loans. So we don't want to give a false impression of security / investment activity. (ii) We reserve the right to change our mind with respect to an Approval at any time, and for any length of time. We have seen things occur on certain platforms, which have led us to move them from the "Approved list" to a "Watch list". And in some cases back on the "Approved list" - once we've done further DD, discussed the issues etc... This is a very important point - we feel it is really important to stay on top of the platforms at all times, understand their motivations etc. As your forum members will undoubtedly agree with. (iii) There are some very well known platforms which we haven't approved (yet...TBD...). By omission, given the scale of our activity, the platforms not on the list would be quite telling for experienced P2P investors, and we wouldn't want anyone to jump to negative conclusions about those platforms that are not on the list. However, in the interests of trying to be helpful and constructive, we are happy to discuss confidentially with clients any concerns they may have etc; which may include their own preferences or otherwise for specific platforms, borrower types etc. One final thought - just because a platform has passed the FCA's review; it doesn't necessarily mean it provides a good risk-return of lending opportunities. The FCA has a different set of approval criteria (lending responsibly, treating customers fairly, ... etc) which aren't necessarily fully aligned with the interests of investors (lenders). So FCA approval shouldn't become the accepted threshold for investing through a specific platform. The same is true, in our opinion, of membership of the P2PFA. I hope the detail is helpful - please excuse the long answer.
|
|
jonah
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,031
Likes: 1,113
|
Post by jonah on May 31, 2016 20:33:29 GMT
Evening,
am I correct in my understanding.... Namely that investors with your site get their money lent on a range of platforms but that it is a total black box, ie they aren't told which platforms or which loans?
Do you auto diversify so that all loans are evenly spread around investors, or could your system provide a different portfolio of loans to people based on loan availability when they invested?
Is the 1% fee a lender fee... therefore we have to pay tax on it even though we didn't get that part of the income stream?
Jonah
|
|
|
Post by stevefindlay on May 31, 2016 22:54:36 GMT
Evening, am I correct in my understanding.... Namely that investors with your site get their money lent on a range of platforms but that it is a total black box, ie they aren't told which platforms or which loans? Do you auto diversify so that all loans are evenly spread around investors, or could your system provide a different portfolio of loans to people based on loan availability when they invested? Is the 1% fee a lender fee... therefore we have to pay tax on it even though we didn't get that part of the income stream? Jonah jonah thank you for your questions: (1) Black box: not quite, we provide a good level of transparency on everyone's personalised dashboard (see image below); with a reference code to enable the Client to ask any further questions they may have about an investment. We are adding additional analysis on the dashboard in the next month or so - i.e. pie charts with loan type, security breakdown etc. We will also be publishing a public record of a summary of the overall loan book around the same time. (2) Auto diversify: we approve loans which enable all Clients to benefit from a target portfolio mix. However every client gets a slightly different collection of Receivables based on when they invest. We have a number of checks and balances in place to enable all Clients to have an optimum mix (i.e. security, term, pricing etc) (3) Tax: the fee is an admin fee. The tax treatment depends on your position (and we can't give tax advice). Generally, Clients that invest on a personal basis aren't able to deduct the 1%; however Clients that invest through a limited company vehicles may be able to offset the fee.
|
|