evo22
Posts: 13
Likes: 16
|
Post by evo22 on Apr 14, 2014 8:23:40 GMT
Totally agree. New p2p platforms such as Wellesley are given momentum by early investors such as us that are willing to back a new venture. To then be disadvantaged like this destroys loyalty. I don't know if it is new customers or new money they are trying to attract, but if it's new money I've got a five figure sum waiting for a new home if they offer existing customers the same deal. If not it'll probably be heading to Assetz now.
|
|
bugs4me
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 1,465
|
Post by bugs4me on Apr 14, 2014 8:49:53 GMT
As much as I can sympathise that incentives can be productive tools for attracting new money, after spotting Wellesley's current £50 cash-back offer for new accounts opened via the Money Super Market platform, I do hope existing members will be offered some sort of loyalty bonus that is equally as equitable in due course, otherwise incentives that are aimed at new sign-ups exclusively become somewhat uncouth and rather off-putting, imo, which are certainly not sentiments that I would have associated with W&C up until this point. I never understand this type of behaviour. Many moons ago a BS launched a higher rate fixed interest term account - new customers only. I was already with them so didn't qualify. The way round it was I had to close my existing account and then re-apply. Okay, I got the higher rate but it certainly didn't help on the loyalty front. Unfortunately some institutions take existing customers for granted. Hope Wellesley don't fall into this category. I know it's only £50 but there's a point of principle over these types of incentives.
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 14, 2014 9:29:13 GMT
With their recent new big deal in and around London they probably need some more investor cash. I wonder if they would like some more of mine.
|
|
markr
Member of DD Central
Posts: 766
Likes: 426
|
Post by markr on Apr 14, 2014 11:08:17 GMT
They were doing a similar offer through p2pmoney when I signed up a few months ago. Unfortunately, I didn't spot it until after I'd opened my account (although it wasn't funded at that point). I followed the link before adding funds but didn't get the cashback. I suppose I could have abandoned my account since it was empty and started again with a different email address but really couldn't be bothered.
|
|
|
Post by easteregg on Apr 14, 2014 11:19:06 GMT
They were doing a similar offer through p2pmoney when I signed up a few months ago. Unfortunately, I didn't spot it until after I'd opened my account (although it wasn't funded at that point). I followed the link before adding funds but didn't get the cashback. I suppose I could have abandoned my account since it was empty and started again with a different email address but really couldn't be bothered. I'm hoping to get the offer back on the P2P money website as soon as possible!
I do agree on the earlier points about rewarding loyal customers, but if I can get some of the peer-to-peer sites to offer bonuses to new lenders or borrowers then I'm very happy to promote these as it is a win-win situation all around.
|
|
mike
Member of DD Central
Posts: 187
Likes: 121
|
Post by mike on Apr 14, 2014 13:52:05 GMT
I am a current member of Wellesley but have not funded yet. I am about to fund for the first time so it seems fair to get the cash back. Let's have some feedback Wellesley on this issue. It would be a shame for an incentive scheme to p*** off existing investors/members.
|
|
|
Post by bracknellboy on Apr 14, 2014 14:47:01 GMT
I am a current member of Wellesley but have not funded yet. I am about to fund for the first time so it seems fair to get the cash back. Let's have some feedback Wellesley on this issue. It would be a shame for an incentive scheme to p*** off existing investors/members. I'm in the same boat (and not an SS boat either). Opened an account a little while back with a test transfer of a few quid but have not yet 'invested' and not yet transferred a meaningful amount either.
|
|
|
Post by easteregg on Apr 14, 2014 14:53:47 GMT
I'm hoping to get the offer back on the P2P money website as soon as possible!
I do agree on the earlier points about rewarding loyal customers, but if I can get some of the peer-to-peer sites to offer bonuses to new lenders or borrowers then I'm very happy to promote these as it is a win-win situation all around.
Whilst I would agree that being able to benefit from offering the same incentive would be good for your site, I don't get how the quoted 'win-win situation all around' can be applied to existing lenders? New sign-ups, the site itself and perhaps borrowers - Yes. Existing lenders - No. As an example: I placed a middling 4-figured sum with W&C when I joined several months ago, and have reinvested all interest that has accrued since. The sum total of interest does not yet amount to the £50 that is being offered as instant cash-back to new lenders, so please forgive my ignorance and explain how such incentives are 'win-win' 'all around'? Perhaps I'm missing something? If some sites are willing and able to offer an incentive for new lenders or new borrowers then it is a "win-win" for those taking advantage of this offer. If the alternative is no incentive, I'd much prefer there to be an incentive!
I quite accept that is someone signed up without receiving a bonus, then this can act as a disincentive. Zopa did have various schemes when it was ramping up and if companies such as Wellesley & Co wish to grow at such a rate then something like this may be needed.
|
|
james
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 955
|
Post by james on Apr 14, 2014 17:59:06 GMT
if I can get some of the peer-to-peer sites to offer bonuses to new lenders or borrowers then I'm very happy to promote these as it is a win-win situation all around. It is not a win-win situation all around. The incentives cost money and that money is a cost that has to be reflected in the margin that reduces rates available to lenders by increasing the margin between costs paid by borrowers and interest paid to lenders. It is a reasonable cost to help to grow the business. Lest anyone suggest that the costs are paid by the owners of and investors in the business, all such costs of course do eventually become part of the required margin between rates paid by borrowers and paid to lenders because owners and investors will expect some return on their own investment, whether that is interest on borrowings of the business or return on equity in some form. So nothing wrong with this, but it's not win-in all around because more than just the two immediately involved parties (new customer and P2x firm) are involved. Existing lenders would do well to remember that they ultimately pay for any incentives they get. The money doesn't appear by magic, it's just being moved from one place to another. If you want to make more money from P2x encourage efficient business models with low overheads and reasonable returns on investment for owners and investors in the business and full disclosure of what those margins are, something that is generally lacking in P2 at the moment. Good to see the firm actively looking to grow the business and its investors paying the up front costs to do so.
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,452
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Apr 14, 2014 19:16:01 GMT
This all unfortunately is starting to look like the rest of the banking trade -- everybody offering incentives for some sort of action so that investors either have to shuffle money around from account to account continuously in order to take advantage of the incentives or suffer the poorer returns that are offered to those who are bound by their inertia. Not a positive trend, IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by easteregg on Apr 14, 2014 19:56:34 GMT
Companies will always face costs in one form of another. Developing a top tier peer-to-peer platform costs a lot of money! Simplistically, there will be fixed costs (management, IT, infrastructure, etc) and variable costs (credit checks, staff, etc) which increase with sales. In the early days the fixed costs will far outweigh the variable costs, so the quicker the company can grow its business, the quicker its revenue will exceed the fixed plus variable costs.
These short term incentives will of course cost money, but this would be less expensive in the medium term as it will quickly grow the revenue stream for the future. In the long run these benefits will likely cease.
|
|
james
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 955
|
Post by james on Apr 14, 2014 20:27:48 GMT
I agree that it is a good idea to be growing the business and that it will lower the margin required to pay for those fixed costs.
mikes1531, consider the alternative world where there is so much money looking for a home that nobody pays a premium to get it. Rather like the one we see now in retail savings accounts where there does not seem to be much pressure to raise rates. It's irritating to be an existing customer but the alternative of lack of competition is worse.
If it helps at all, this incentive isn't enough to get me interested. I can do better at Bondora and the incentive doesn't come remotely close to the level it would take to get me to switch from putting new money there at the moment. But if one is an ISA and one is not, the one in an ISA would have a big advantage. The competition then would be with 8-9% tax free from some VCT investments after the effect of the 20 30% tax rebate on the purchase price. At the moment Bondora beats that.
I'd also be very interested in the ISA wrapper as a way to do some diversifying out of equities, which I think in some places are overvalued and worth a switch into some alternative asset classes for protection of some of my ISA money. And it's of interest as a possible alternative income stream in retirement if I do that in a few years as well.
It's perhaps ironic that as soon as P2x gets the potential to be in ISAs, the government changes the pension rules and that means that I may well end up taking money out of the ISA wrapper and moving it to the pension wrapper to get the pension tax relief. That in turn means that I'm interested in P2x inside a SIPP where I can get the income after the tax relief has boosted the amount invested.
|
|
bugs4me
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 1,465
|
Post by bugs4me on Apr 14, 2014 21:17:28 GMT
This all unfortunately is starting to look like the rest of the banking trade -- everybody offering incentives for some sort of action so that investors either have to shuffle money around from account to account continuously in order to take advantage of the incentives or suffer the poorer returns that are offered to those who are bound by their inertia. Not a positive trend, IMHO. It's not just limited to the banking trade Mike. Goodness there's another P2P floating around (mention no names) that seemed to favour new lenders over existing lenders. Okay, it was all down to ratios but it certainly left a bitter taste in the mouth - just the pure principle of the thing. Unfortunately they didn't appear to be very good on the communication front which up to this point Wellesley are. Maybe they will make an appearance. Outside of the banking trade my wife regularly uses a well known supermarket with her 'loyalty' card. I also use the same supermarket for fuel with my 'loyalty' card. It's me though that gets what seems to be a weekly e-mail offering incentives to start grocery shopping. My wife is taken for granted and gets the odd drizzle offer here and there. Sometimes I just get the impression that the companies offering these incentives fail to step outside of themselves to understand the effect these one off offers, which are denied to their existing customers have. It's no good to keep on topping up the bucket with new customers whilst you've got holes in the bottom with your existing ones leaving.
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,452
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Apr 14, 2014 21:34:37 GMT
The competition then would be with 8-9% tax free from some VCT investments after the effect of the 20% tax rebate on the purchase price. I thought the tax rebate on VCT investments was 30%. Have I got that wrong? Has it changed recently? Outside of the banking trade my wife regularly uses a well known supermarket with her 'loyalty' card. I also use the same supermarket for fuel with my 'loyalty' card. It's me though that gets what seems to be a weekly e-mail offering incentives to start grocery shopping. My wife is taken for granted and gets the odd drizzle offer here and there. Have you ever tried to give some of your incentives to your wife to use? If they're in coupon form, have your name on them, and your wife uses the same surname, you might find that works.
|
|
bugs4me
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 1,465
|
Post by bugs4me on Apr 14, 2014 21:41:17 GMT
The competition then would be with 8-9% tax free from some VCT investments after the effect of the 20% tax rebate on the purchase price. I thought the tax rebate on VCT investments was 30%. Have I got that wrong? Has it changed recently? Outside of the banking trade my wife regularly uses a well known supermarket with her 'loyalty' card. I also use the same supermarket for fuel with my 'loyalty' card. It's me though that gets what seems to be a weekly e-mail offering incentives to start grocery shopping. My wife is taken for granted and gets the odd drizzle offer here and there. Have you ever tried to give some of your incentives to your wife to use? If they're in coupon form, have your name on them, and your wife uses the same surname, you might find that works. Indeed I do but it irritates her that I get the goody bag and she gets any leftover crumbs.
|
|