Liz
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Post by Liz on Jul 24, 2016 9:02:56 GMT
The problem with any published financial data, is that it is out of date, especially financial data for a rapidly growing(both revenue and costs) small company.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Jul 24, 2016 9:12:44 GMT
The problem with any published financial data, is that it is out of date, especially financial data for a rapidly growing(both revenue and costs) small company. It would be nice to get a yearly pack from SS to indicate their profit & loss (and strategy, forecasts etc) Do other P2P platforms provide financial information straight to the investor?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 24, 2016 9:55:51 GMT
With respect to the profit/loss for 2014, can we not look at the P&L account balance at the end of 2013 and 2014 and tell how well they did via the difference between the two numbers?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 24, 2016 10:02:16 GMT
It would be nice to get a yearly pack from SS to indicate their profit & loss (and strategy, forecasts etc) Do other P2P platforms provide financial information straight to the investor? That is the sort of info that's generally restricted to equity investors. AC published something along those lines when they did their Seedrs fundraising (Spring '15) but, IIRC, you had to sign a non-disclosure agreement before they'd let you see it. Not that such things are that useful for companies with great aspirations -- the phrases 'pie in the sky' and 'jam tomorrow' come to mind.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Jul 24, 2016 10:02:21 GMT
With respect to the profit/loss for 2014, can we not look at the P&L account balance at the end of 2013 and 2014 and tell how well they did via the difference between the two numbers? Prior to the 2014 accounts, there has only been one set of accounts submitted (2013).
| 2013 (£)
| 2014 (£)
| Cash | 83,732.00 | 3,726,907.00 | Net Worth | 2,522.00 | 270,364.00 | Total Current Assets | 1,062,222.00 | 10,241,675.00 | Total Current Liabilities
| 1,059,700.00
| 9,971,311.00
| P/L Account | 2,522.00 | 270,364.00 |
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 24, 2016 10:09:10 GMT
With respect to the profit/loss for 2014, can we not look at the P&L account balance at the end of 2013 and 2014 and tell how well they did via the difference between the two numbers? Prior to the 2014 accounts, there has only been one set of accounts submitted (2013).
| 2013 (£)
| 2014 (£)
| Cash | 83,732.00 | 3,726,907.00 | Net Worth | 2,522.00 | 270,364.00 | Total Current Assets | 1,062,222.00 | 10,241,675.00 | Total Current Liabilities
| 1,059,700.00
| 9,971,311.00
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It's good to see the increase in net worth, but there's no way to tell whether that resulted from profitability or an equity injection without the 2013 equivalent to the £270,364 cumulative balance in the P&L account at the end of 2014. EDIT: Ah! I see C_D has since added the relevant numbers and it looks like SS had a profit of £268k in 2014. That's impressive for a start-up. 2015 is bound to be even more impressive!
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Post by dualinvestor on Jul 24, 2016 10:24:17 GMT
Prior to the 2014 accounts, there has only been one set of accounts submitted (2013).
| 2013 (£)
| 2014 (£)
| Cash | 83,732.00 | 3,726,907.00 | Net Worth | 2,522.00 | 270,364.00 | Total Current Assets | 1,062,222.00 | 10,241,675.00 | Total Current Liabilities
| 1,059,700.00
| 9,971,311.00
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It's good to see the increase in net worth, but there's no way to tell whether that resulted from profitability or an equity injection without the 2013 equivalent to the £270,364 cumulative balance in the P&L account at the end of 2014. EDIT: Ah! I see C_D has since added the relevant numbers and it looks like SS had a profit of £268k in 2014. That's impressive for a start-up. 2015 is bound to be even more impressive! The whole point of the exemptions is that a small or medium sized company does not have to publish the imformation, it is still a statutory requirement that they must be prepared, for other purposes such as the shareholders and tax. Comparison of each years balance of the profit and loss account for each year will give an indication of profitability after tax. Most provisions and reserves (eg property revaluations, share premium accounts) do not go through the profit and loss account. As far as I am aware none of the platforms do provide anything similar to a "investors information pack" directly to the lendors, the rationale behind that presumably being you are not investing in the platform. Whether that is a reasonable or desirable position is something that you have to consider yourself, but it is unlikely that a large institutional investor would invest in any platform without doing considerable detailled due dilligence, including direct access to the books and records and company poilicies of the platform. (There was discussion some while back that the institutional investors on RS did undertake such DD)
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Jul 24, 2016 11:20:52 GMT
The problem with any published financial data, is that it is out of date, especially financial data for a rapidly growing(both revenue and costs) small company. It would be nice to get a yearly pack from SS to indicate their profit & loss (and strategy, forecasts etc) Do other P2P platforms provide financial information straight to the investor? It would be nice to get monthly management accounts too. Whilst we are are at it, what about home phone numbers of directors
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boble
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Post by boble on Jul 24, 2016 17:40:50 GMT
It is important to remember that investors funds are secured against property assets and not the profitability of SS/Lendy Ltd.
Inevitably, some loans will default; it is the responsibility of SS to ensure that these events are minimal and that the loans are structured so that in the event of default investors funds are substantially mitigated.
Individual investors must also take responsibility for their actions and should, therefore, carefully consider the sums they are willing to commit to particular loans. As far as my own investment in SS is concerned, I constantly review overall strategy and my confidence in a particular loan or borrower.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Jul 24, 2016 17:50:19 GMT
It is important to remember that investors funds are secured against property assets and not the profitability of SS/Lendy Ltd. Inevitably, some loans will default; it is the responsibility of SS to ensure that these events are minimal and that the loans are structured so that in the event of default investors funds are substantially mitigated. Individual investors must also take responsibility for their actions and should, therefore, carefully consider the sums they are willing to commit to particular loans. As far as my own investment in SS is concerned, I constantly review overall strategy and my confidence in a particular loan or borrower. On the old T&C loans, we are lending our money to Lendy Ltd, so if the platform went bust I'm not sure what would happen... What you say is true for the new T&C loans, but if the platform fails all hell would break out... I know and understand that SS have measures in place in the event that Lendy Ltd went bust (I believe this it's one of the biggest requirements set out by the FCA), but it would be very messy, and I wouldn't want to be around if it happened. Personally, I wouldn't invest in a platform that wasn't profitable, for the above reason, and because being profitable shows that the platform is competent.
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boble
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Post by boble on Jul 24, 2016 18:57:44 GMT
It is important to remember that investors funds are secured against property assets and not the profitability of SS/Lendy Ltd. Inevitably, some loans will default; it is the responsibility of SS to ensure that these events are minimal and that the loans are structured so that in the event of default investors funds are substantially mitigated. Individual investors must also take responsibility for their actions and should, therefore, carefully consider the sums they are willing to commit to particular loans. As far as my own investment in SS is concerned, I constantly review overall strategy and my confidence in a particular loan or borrower. On the old T&C loans, we are lending our money to Lendy Ltd, so if the platform went bust I'm not sure what would happen... What you say is true for the new T&C loans, but if the platform fails all hell would break out... I know and understand that SS have measures in place in the event that Lendy Ltd went bust (I believe this it's one of the biggest requirements set out by the FCA), but it would be very messy, and I wouldn't want to be around if it happened. Personally, I wouldn't invest in a platform that wasn't profitable, for the above reason, and because being profitable shows that the platform is competent. You are entirely correct CD, and I will suggest to SS that they publish quarterly operating accounts to investors for the purpose of maintaining investor confidence. I am regularly tempted to make suggestions to SS (in addition to those that I do make) which I believe will improve/strengthen the platform; however, I have to remain mindful that it is their business and although I may feel close to this because of my investments via the platform and my personal wish to see them prosper, I am ultimately just a willing "customer".
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jfm
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Post by jfm on Jul 24, 2016 20:48:15 GMT
Personally, I wouldn't invest in a platform that wasn't profitable So before you first invested with SS (PBL33?) did you ascertain its profitability?
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beechside
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Post by beechside on Jul 24, 2016 21:05:34 GMT
I'm a bit of an old timer and have have worked at board level for a FTSE 100 company, for an Internet startup and for a very large non-profit. While I wouldn't claim to be the most knowledgeable of people on these forums, I would counsel you not to take much notice of a company's published data. It's quite easy to move items around, to hide both profit and loss, to manipulate assets and liabilities. Basically, the accounts will show you only what they want you to see. A different way of looking at profitability is to look at, admittedly rough, income and expenditure model. littleoldlady said that the model was "lend at 18% then offload the loan and the risk to us at 12%". In fact, she understates the income. They also have a 4% arrangement fee and a 2% exit fee. You can see how Tim explained their model here: SS Business ModelAdmittedly, that tells us nothing about overheads, investor commitments, future dividends/equity allocation to directors. However, it does show that there is plenty in the arrangement and exit fees to cover all aspects of DD, surveys, introduction fees, legal fees etc. It would be a pretty shoddy company that couldn't make make a profit at that level of margin. Tim claims that SS have been profitable from day one. I have to say that seems pretty reasonable to me. It was brave of Tim to give us that level of detail and, while I doubt it's the same for every single loan, it's a very comfortable starting point.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Jul 24, 2016 21:23:05 GMT
Personally, I wouldn't invest in a platform that wasn't profitable So before you first invested with SS (PBL33?) did you ascertain its profitability? Not immediately... It took me 3 months after dabbling with SS (with a test £500 October last year) before I started to invest large sums of my money with them. During that 3 months, one one the many platform DD I carried out was checking the profitability of SS via the limited information on companies house.
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Post by martin44 on Jul 24, 2016 21:52:41 GMT
Personally, I wouldn't invest in a platform that wasn't profitable So before you first invested with SS (PBL33?) did you ascertain its profitability? I did some DD on lehman bros in 2008... then invested . or
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