jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Apr 22, 2014 15:05:38 GMT
I reiterate something I said earlier in this thread. Irrespective of interest rates or underwriters this loan does not do what it says on the tin or in this case AC’s website:
“Lend to UK businesses and property developers through Assetz Capital. All loans are secured by tangible assets and we don’t charge any lender fees.”
As others have said, AC’s USP is asset backed security and if this loan is the shape of things to come then I don’t want to know, I can risk my hard earned money and get quicker drawdowns just as easily on FC.
IMO this was cynical attempt to foist this on to lenders over the bank holiday and in view of the comments on this forum, the absence of any response by AC personnel, despite holidays, should be of concern to lenders.
I'm guessing davidricketts is wishing that andrewholgate hadn't gone on holiday while this loan was being 'discussed' on the forum! Somebody from AC might at least stick their head above the parapet so we know they haven't deserted us? some might say AC have made a bit of a ricketts of this one!
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Apr 22, 2014 15:20:45 GMT
I agree, I think this thread is a part of negations. The borrower probably might've said put it on for 9% just hoping we'd go for it, well we did go for it, to the tune of less than 10k after for four days over a holiday when there was nothing to compete for our money except some now ancient proposals that we all know off by heart. No doubt AC will be on the phone at some point this week saying that it's not looking to good, and suggesting changes. I'm suggesting 12-15% with an u/wer who's had a view of the privy information that we all want to see but can't. Wouldn't be for me even if it was at 15% as it reminds me of the infamous PG's available on another platform. Now with tangible asset security it would be worth a look but without that then I cannot see it flying anywhere - well not with my cash anyway. Even if, (a big if), they do get the 12-15% range and manage to get uw's involved then I'll make sure I don't pick up any parts in the am. My question has been answered but prospective lenders will not be permitted to view the 'Asset and Liability' profile although AC are satisfied that the borrower has sufficient assets, which I assume means at this moment in time, to meet any guarantor obligations. So it's a PG loan at 9%. Not for me.
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unmadem
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Post by unmadem on Apr 22, 2014 15:43:32 GMT
I reiterate something I said earlier in this thread. Irrespective of interest rates or underwriters this loan does not do what it says on the tin or in this case AC’s website:
“Lend to UK businesses and property developers through Assetz Capital. All loans are secured by tangible assets and we don’t charge any lender fees.”
As others have said, AC’s USP is asset backed security and if this loan is the shape of things to come then I don’t want to know, I can risk my hard earned money and get quicker drawdowns just as easily on FC.
The Why US page of the web site says
"Security - We take tangible security to support the loans. We don't rely just on a guarantee from a director but we take charges on property and equipment with a view to these being turned into real cash should the worst happen."
I wonder if this will be changed now ? Seems strange for AC to be abandoning such a clear message and differentiator over competitors.
I'll be avoiding this loan.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 22, 2014 15:57:03 GMT
I can't really understand how a loan with no asset security warrants an interest rate lower than most which do have real asset security. FC never explain when anomalies are presented to us. Maybe AC will.  |
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j
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Post by j on Apr 22, 2014 15:57:47 GMT
Wouldn't be for me even if it was at 15% as it reminds me of the infamous PG's available on another platform. Now with tangible asset security it would be worth a look but without that then I cannot see it flying anywhere - well not with my cash anyway. Even if, (a big if), they do get the 12-15% range and manage to get uw's involved then I'll make sure I don't pick up any parts in the am. My question has been answered but prospective lenders will not be permitted to view the 'Asset and Liability' profile although AC are satisfied that the borrower has sufficient assets, which I assume means at this moment in time, to meet any guarantor obligations. So it's a PG loan at 9%. Not for me. Ditto! I think a doubling of current rate 'might' convince me to take a plunge if only a PG is on offer. I think even Andrew H, if memory serves right, might have indicated on this forum many weeks ago or in his lenders' day talk that PGs are not worth the paper they're written on. So, what has suddenly changed to convince AC to offer such a loan?!
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Apr 22, 2014 16:09:40 GMT
My question has been answered but prospective lenders will not be permitted to view the 'Asset and Liability' profile although AC are satisfied that the borrower has sufficient assets, which I assume means at this moment in time, to meet any guarantor obligations. So it's a PG loan at 9%. Not for me. Ditto! I think a doubling of current rate 'might' convince me to take a plunge if only a PG is on offer. I think even Andrew H, if memory serves right, might have indicated on this forum many weeks ago or in his lenders' day talk that PGs are not worth the paper they're written on. So, what has suddenly changed to convince AC to offer such a loan?! The issue with PG's as I understand it is does the individual have assets in his name. Or was it transffered to a partners name or perhaps into a trust and he's the chairman etc, but here, now with AC confirming he has assets in his name this is now a valid and meaningful Personal Guarantee. Then the question can be asked if these assets are in his name why can't we have a charge over them? What are the legal constrains on placing charges?
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Apr 22, 2014 16:22:18 GMT
Ditto! I think a doubling of current rate 'might' convince me to take a plunge if only a PG is on offer. I think even Andrew H, if memory serves right, might have indicated on this forum many weeks ago or in his lenders' day talk that PGs are not worth the paper they're written on. So, what has suddenly changed to convince AC to offer such a loan?! The issue with PG's as I understand it is does the individual have assets in his name. Or was it transffered to a partners name or perhaps into a trust and he's the chairman etc, but here, now with AC confirming he has assets in his name this is now a valid and meaningful Personal Guarantee. Then the question can be asked if these assets are in his name why can't we have a charge over them? What are the legal constrains on placing charges? The assets could frankly be anything from cash to volatile shares - only AC know and they're not letting on as the borrower has requested confidentiality for some reason. Without any charge then there is nothing as far as I can tell that these assets will still be around if required. Maybe and hopefully not in this case but this is looking more like a fishing expedition the more I look at it and if/when the amount is raised expect a long and protracted drawdown. All too mushy for my wallet.
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ton27
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Post by ton27 on Apr 22, 2014 16:28:17 GMT
Without a charge on the assets of the "guarantor" this remains at 9% an unattractive proposition and, like many others, I will not be investing.
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spockie
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Post by spockie on Apr 22, 2014 16:35:23 GMT
Part of me wonders if it isn't a fishing expedition from AC as well, so see what the reaction would be to a PG loan. They were also probably desperate to have a live loan available over the weekend as I've said before. Disappointing. I hope there are some better loans to come, but it's all been a bit quiet of late.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 22, 2014 16:37:23 GMT
Then the question can be asked if these assets are in his name why can't we have a charge over them? I suspect the answer is (pick one)... - Because the borrower doesn't want to allow that;
- Because the assets are being used to provide a PG to others as well (the Q&A actually reveals that);
- Because the borrower wants to retain the ability to transfer them out of his name should he become worried that one of his PGs might be called upon;
- All of the above
(I'd add a smiley, but unfortunately I don't find this amusing.)
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j
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Post by j on Apr 22, 2014 16:52:29 GMT
Part of me wonders if it isn't a fishing expedition from AC as well, so see what the reaction would be to a PG loan. They were also probably desperate to have a live loan available over the weekend as I've said before. Disappointing. I hope there are some better loans to come, but it's all been a bit quiet of late. If AC were fishing for an answer on this type of loan then they've certainly got a resoundingly clear response. Their current lender base doesn't like it. As someone earlier said, why would we invest in a loan @ 9% with only a PG (not a very transparent one at that) when we can pick ones @ 12% that pay immediately on AM with a solid bricks & mortar asset? It's an absolute no brainer.
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j
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Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Apr 22, 2014 17:00:06 GMT
Maybe and hopefully not in this case but this is looking more like a fishing expedition the more I look at it and if/when the amount is raised expect a long and protracted drawdown. All too mushy for my wallet. Sorry, managed to mess up last post...should have read: 'Couldn't have put it better' on Bugs' comment
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Apr 22, 2014 17:02:56 GMT
Wouldn't be for me even if it was at 15% as it reminds me of the infamous PG's available on another platform. Now with tangible asset security it would be worth a look but without that then I cannot see it flying anywhere - well not with my cash anyway. Even if, (a big if), they do get the 12-15% range and manage to get uw's involved then I'll make sure I don't pick up any parts in the am. My question has been answered but prospective lenders will not be permitted to view the 'Asset and Liability' profile although AC are satisfied that the borrower has sufficient assets, which I assume means at this moment in time, to meet any guarantor obligations. So it's a PG loan at 9%. Not for me. Or is it just Andrew checking up on his staff to see how they perform without him. No man in Andrews position would dare to be out of touch with what is going on. Even on holiday IPhones and the like still work!
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Post by thereverendofsurrey on Apr 22, 2014 17:06:54 GMT
If AC read this forum, should we read something into the deafening silence that has come from them today. Everyone has been back in the office a full working day now and absolutely no response to the tirade of issues raised here and on the q&a page on AC site....I appreciate they must be feeling pretty sheepish about trying to fly this dead duck over Easter, but as someone who knows a little about Easter Resurrection....this one stands no chance in 3 days....
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j
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Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Apr 22, 2014 17:09:09 GMT
If AC read this forum, should we read something into the deafening silence that has come from them today. Everyone has been back in the office a full working day now and absolutely no response to the tirade of issues raised here and on the q&a page on AC site....I appreciate they must be feeling pretty sheepish about trying to fly this dead duck over Easter, but as someone who knows a little about Easter Resurrection....this one stands no chance in 3 days.... I doubt it'll stand a chance in even 3 months!
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