gibmike
Member of DD Central
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
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Post by gibmike on Aug 22, 2016 22:40:19 GMT
I wish I could, Gibraltar offers a rate of about 4.5% minimum....
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david42
Member of DD Central
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Post by david42 on Aug 22, 2016 23:37:34 GMT
Was it difficult to get started in this - I've signed up for demo accounts in the past but wasn't sure where to begin. Do you have any recommendations for websites/forums? I don't know the best way to get started with futures trading from scratch. My route in won't help you. You might try the forum www.trade2win.com which seems to come up with answers in a lot of my searches. I learnt about futures and options pricing thirty years ago by reading the introductory material from IG Index then reading some of the text books on option pricing theory. (Wikipedia had not been invented.) If you stick with futures rather than options, there is less to learn. When I wanted to gear up my P2P lending, I went back to IG Index because they had provided a lot of support in the past. Sure enough, as soon as I opened the account I was contacted by someone who said his job was to answer any questions while I got used to the platform. He gave me some helpful pointers. IG Index also sent me a lot of training material, which I did not bother to read. I did not make much use of the demo account. I just placed a small real bet to start with, so that I could see how the real money worked. Starting from scratch, you need to learn - how futures are priced (arbitrage ensures that future price = spot price + financing cost for the time - any dividends to be paid over the time). Nothing to do with where people think the price might move to. - how spread betting works. The demo account can help here. It is easy to get a factor of ten wrong, or worse, if you fail to understand exactly what you are betting on. I once placed a bet in the opposite direction to the one I wanted. - once you understand futures, using them to gear your P2P portfolio is just a matter of deciding on your strategy.
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james
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Post by james on Aug 23, 2016 1:16:23 GMT
Like some others I used stoozing on credit cards to fund some of my P2P investing. Not a particularly high amount of leverage vs overall investments and income so repaying wouldn't be a problem even in a 100% loss situation at present.
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dinisrr
New Member
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Post by dinisrr on Aug 23, 2016 11:45:29 GMT
Do you know some ways to leverage investments in P2P loans? An easy way would be to use a broker's margin account, but it is very risky: -I have about 20% of my portfolio in P2P loans, the rest is in ETFs (mostly stocks). -I could get a margin account in my broker to borrow money - it would be collateralised by the ETFs but invested in P2P loans. -This would mean a risk of a margin call if the stock market goes down, in this situation the money would be in illiquid assets (P2P loans) and I would be unable to deposit it in the brokerage account in the required time. Do you know any P2P lending platforms that offer the possibility to leverage our investments? Is there any better way to leverage these loans? Thanks The simplest way to leverage your P2P exposure would be to buy CFDs or spreadbets in some of the P2P close ended investment funds, eg FC's SME Income fund, P2P Global Investments etc. However, you would be exposed to basis risk (ie movements in the premium/discount to NAV the fund trades at). The bid-ask spreads on the funds can also be quite large, 1-2%, so probably only worth doing to invest over the medium to long term. IG margin 10% on CFDs and spreadbets on FC's fund, but this goes up to 20% for nominal investment of above c£2k and escalate further for nominal values above c£10k. Interest on margin amounts is charged at libor + 2.5% pa (so currently about 2.75%pa). I have small CFD and spreadbet positions in FC's SME Income fund where I have obtained 10 times leverage. I choose FC's fund as I'm already familiar and comfortable with its UK platform and risk/return profile of loans on it which make up over 50% of the fund's investment. The fund is also itself leveraged and is fairly liquid and normally trades within a 1% bid-ask spread. I am weary of the basis risk and for funding purposes assume a potential blow-out in the NAV discount from currently circa 1% premium to a 40% discount. For risk purposes, I always focus on the notional gross value of any derivative position as it movements in this that invariably flow through to future margin requirements. I wouldn't advocate leveraging up any P2P loan exposures unless you are very comfortable with the underlying risk of the P2P loans along with any risks (such as basis risk for closed end funds) all of which will be amplified by leverage. Thanks. I'll have a look at these P2P close ended funds, the CFDs on these seem like a great strategy, but 1%-2% B/A spread is really high, for the cost to be reasonable you have to maintain the investment several years.
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Post by Financial Thing on Aug 26, 2016 16:32:18 GMT
** Cautious hat on **
If anyone reading this is inexperienced in leveraging, please be careful. You really need to factor risk to the reward in your return calculations, most people don't understand how much risk is involved.
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bigfoot12
Member of DD Central
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Post by bigfoot12 on Aug 27, 2016 16:39:23 GMT
Thanks. I'll have a look at these P2P close ended funds, the CFDs on these seem like a great strategy, but 1%-2% B/A spread is really high, for the cost to be reasonable you have to maintain the investment several years. I am quite new to IG index and I, too, have been very impressed with the platform and the email and phone support. The bid/offer for the major indices and FX contracts is negligible - i don't know how they do it. The P2P investment trusts are in reality tiny low liquidity companies and 1% bid/offer is probably fair. I gear up on other investments and hold P2P un geared. (Having said that at the moment my gearing is as low as it has been for several years, and cash holdings are my largest for the last two years.) I also echo Financial Thing in warning that it is easy to make mistakes - I have and I have years of experience in this sort of thing. If you are new I suggest that you pick a couple of shares/ or indices and actually buy and sell a few small amounts. The minimum transaction is usually very small, and on spread betting there is no commission so the cost is small. If you can't afford that small cost you probably should steer clear. Hold shares overnight, see what happens with funding, buy something about to pay a dividend and so on.
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Mike
Member of DD Central
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Post by Mike on Aug 27, 2016 18:20:23 GMT
If you trade IG make a special effort to note dividend policy. It varies.
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littonowl
Member of DD Central
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Post by littonowl on Oct 8, 2016 9:18:49 GMT
Personally, I'm technically leveraging... 50% of my p2p cash is from 0% credit cards but I can cover that from other funding as needed. What sort of figures have you managed to fund? I am doing this too that's all, but not managed more than a low 5 figure amount I'm curious how you go about stoozing 0% credit cards for p2p? Most of the sites I currently use will not accept credit cards as a form of funding, instead offering debit card or bank transfer only, Octopus Choice for example, state: 'Unfortunately we don’t accept credit cards, as we’re not allowed to accept investments made with borrowed money.' Are there any P2P platforms out there that do accept CC's, or is it more a case of funding your P2P indirectly, by putting all the living expenses on the 0% to free up more short-term cash? Either way, would appreciate any pointers from anyone as to how you go about doing this. TIA.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Oct 8, 2016 11:00:48 GMT
littonowlStooze the cash.... transfer the cash to your p2p site. Invest. Slow stooze... use a long term 0% purchase card. Put everything on to it. Put the cash not used into an investment. Pay off the card after 20 months or whatever period it has and enjoy your earnings (remember to pay tax. Remember to pay the minimum monthly credit card amount) You can extend the above via a balance transfer. Lots of them around at 0% for several years and many with 0% fees. Fast stooze... use a 0% balance transfer to a current account (called a money transfer). Usually via a card dedicated to this e.g. Virgin and with a fee. Alternatively balance transfer to a card which puts the card into credit and move the cash into your current account. Again needs the right credit card, mbna do some. MSE forums or www.stoozing.com/stoozforum/ for more details.
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littonowl
Member of DD Central
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Post by littonowl on Oct 8, 2016 11:23:00 GMT
littonowl Stooze the cash.... transfer the cash to your p2p site. Invest. Slow stooze... use a long term 0% purchase card. Put everything on to it. Put the cash not used into an investment. Pay off the card after 20 months or whatever period it has and enjoy your earnings (remember to pay tax. Remember to pay the minimum monthly credit card amount) You can extend the above via a balance transfer. Lots of them around at 0% for several years and many with 0% fees. Fast stooze... use a 0% balance transfer to a current account (called a money transfer). Usually via a card dedicated to this e.g. Virgin and with a fee. Alternatively balance transfer to a card which puts the card into credit and move the cash into your current account. Again needs the right credit card, mbna do some. MSE forums or www.stoozing.com/stoozforum/ for more details. Thanks very much for the explanation, jonah. Food for thought, and that's my weekend reading sorted too...!
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