sarahcount
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Post by sarahcount on Feb 14, 2019 13:39:40 GMT
Well this is an interesting one! My observations 1) How many of these things have actually been completed - my guess is only 2 from the use of the definitive article below: My guess is four.
That's because I've actually read the FS updates for each loan and not just for one of them! There are two loans. On each loan there are two units completed.
Who would have thought that we'd actually need to tell adrian77 that 2 + 2 = 4.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Feb 14, 2019 13:53:57 GMT
if you read my post I actually refer to 2 sets of loans and state
so you have seen these things in the flesh have you or maybe you have never heard of the mysterious Whitehaven timber frame or the non-secured art loans - have you investigated the borrower as I have ... I feel sorry for people like you who snipe from the sidelines and contrive criticism (happy for people to disagree with me) - I am not convinced there are 4 which is quite reasonable. I am not talking my book so have nothing to lose.
Speaking of sniping I read about Commercial Property - Bradford - Renewal (1150650273)
well correct me if I am wrong but we are still waiting for this one - but if FS states it is about to complete then it must be true and will doubtless complete in the next few days...
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mason
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Post by mason on Feb 14, 2019 13:55:26 GMT
The loan description is quite clear that the "Additional loan" and *shudder* "2nd Additional loan" rank behind the others. Nonetheless, the outcome could still be identical if after costs there is nothing left to distribute. No doubt, the outcome rogerthat refers to is the default status of the loans rather than the amount recovered in the 2 park homes vs 5 park homes. Highly unlikely as as Far as I’m aware there has. Never been 100% loss on a primary loan where there is an actual movable asset. Think the notorious Garnet was nearest. As the assets are assigned to the loans the 2 park homes have different ranking. I think the 5 park homes have equal ranking. It shouldn’t matter if you invested the prudent <1% in any loan/project  I think Whitehaven was nearest, with proceeds from the sale of the asset delivered a 2% recovery after costs - fortunately I avoided that one. Personally, I consider the Ablrate shipping container loans a 100% capital loss and those certainly were "movable" assets, which was part of the problem  Personally my max in any FS loan is 0.1%
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sarahcount
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Post by sarahcount on Feb 14, 2019 15:40:42 GMT
so you have seen these things in the flesh have you or maybe you have never heard of the mysterious Whitehaven timber frame or the non-secured art loans - have you investigated the borrower as I have ... I feel sorry for people like you who snipe from the sidelines and contrive criticism (happy for people to disagree with me) - I am not convinced there are 4 which is quite reasonable. I am not talking my book so have nothing to lose. Some FS updates have been a little unreliable but I would be astounded if it turns out that there are only two units completed when the say there are four. The confusion over the number of finished units on this forum recently is more down to members reading only the updates on the loans that they hold (in "my investments") rather than all the updates in "all active and past investments" in my opinion.
I am well aware of problems with these loans, the Whitehaven loan and the Art loans. I'm exposed to all of them but thankfully only in small amounts. In Whitehaven and Art the borrower is the main villain while I agree that FS systems at the time have failed to prevent our exploitation.
In regard to investigating the borrower I have certainly read the international best-seller concerning the art loans borrower and the FBI. Not sure that you or I were aware of any of this at the time the loans were offered however.
If you are saying that borrowers are a little bit shady and have poor credit scores - then welcome to P2P.
I've also read your Mega Disaster posts and note that the sky hasn't always fallen in as your predicted. The Cinema being one case in point. You also ignore all the many loans that pay back with interest.
I would say that it is your actions that is 'sniping from the sidelines' rather than those that challenge you.
I'm also not talking my book as you put it. I rarely sell FS loans. Just try to buy the ones which I consider most likely to come good. An assessment of the risk, ranking, LTV etc seems to be the way to go. Just avoid anything that looks high risk.
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james21
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Post by james21 on Feb 14, 2019 16:01:47 GMT
I asked the question how many were completed via chat late last year and was told 2 + 2, this was never confirmed in any of the updates, until the most recent ones
I have a screen shot of the chat
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Feb 14, 2019 16:26:13 GMT
I hope it is 4 but this leaves the question as to why only 2 are up for sale?
Maybe FS are confident each one will sell for over £200K in order to repay the total debt?
£200K will buy a decent house and over 8 cheap ones up here in the frozen wastelands of Burnley...
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pip
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Post by pip on Feb 14, 2019 16:54:15 GMT
Forgive my ignorance but not entirely sure what the confusion is.
For the loan for the Five Park Homes, only two were ever built. The security on the other three was just a complete lie as these were only ever going to be built once the first two were sold, hence the loan was never secured on 5 homes in the first place but two.
The description about % of completion of these other 3 homes in the prospectus was...well a lie as it now turns out they were nothing more than a few planks of wood and an idea.
Will you get your money back. No.
In my opinion best to write this one off and put it down to experience. On my spreadsheet of expected recoveries from FS loans I have it down as I expect 1% recovery, and this is probably generous. Even if they sell for a small amount at auction sure FS will take off the auction fee, transport costs etc. to leave us with next to nothing.
Sorry to be cynical but that is how I see it.
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rs
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Post by rs on Feb 14, 2019 17:09:43 GMT
Forgive my ignorance but not entirely sure what the confusion is. For the loan for the Five Park Homes, only two were ever built. The security on the other three was just a complete lie as these were only ever going to be built once the first two were sold, hence the loan was never secured on 5 homes in the first place but two. The description about % of completion of these other 3 homes in the prospectus was...well a lie as it now turns out they were nothing more than a few planks of wood and an idea. Will you get your money back. No. In my opinion best to write this one off and put it down to experience. On my spreadsheet of expected recoveries from FS loans I have it down as I expect 1% recovery, and this is probably generous. Even if they sell for a small amount at auction sure FS will take off the auction fee, transport costs etc. to leave us with next to nothing. Sorry to be cynical but that is how I see it. To be fair there's only 1.8 or 3.6 homes up for sale. How you get to 2 or 4 is debatable! I wonder how many more posts there will about the number of homes up for sale.
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mariner
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Post by mariner on Feb 14, 2019 18:32:38 GMT
Any half decent company, after reading the amount of confusion which these homes are causing, would get off their backsides & make a clear & unambiguous statement as to where we are actually at, with these homes
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nyneil
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Post by nyneil on Feb 14, 2019 19:20:42 GMT
Well this is an interesting one! My observations 1) How many of these things have actually been completed - my guess is only 2 from the use of the definitive article below: My guess is four.
That's because I've actually read the FS updates for each loan and not just for one of them! There are two loans. On each loan there are two units completed.
Who would have thought that we'd actually need to tell adrian77 that 2 + 2 = 4.
Well I thought that sometimes often, 2 + 2 = 5 on this forum NB not directed at anyone in particular
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Feb 14, 2019 19:36:53 GMT
Highly unlikely as as Far as I’m aware there has. Never been 100% loss on a primary loan where there is an actual movable asset. Think the notorious Garnet was nearest. As the assets are assigned to the loans the 2 park homes have different ranking. I think the 5 park homes have equal ranking. It shouldn’t matter if you invested the prudent <1% in any loan/project I think Whitehaven was nearest, with proceeds from the sale of the asset delivered a 2% recovery after costs - fortunately I avoided that one. Personally, I consider the Ablrate shipping container loans a 100% capital loss and those certainly were "movable" assets, which was part of the problem Personally my max in any FS loan is 0.1% Whitehaven was not a movable asset .. A wise investment strategy on your behalf.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Feb 14, 2019 19:40:18 GMT
What price would someone here pay for a nice large garden shed or place for the mother in law. I bid £10000 if delivered. That would be a bit less as I would get some cash back for my investment. Enough for small doormat. |
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Feb 15, 2019 9:56:48 GMT
Having re-read the details again it looks as if the 2 batch run is 100% complete and these have a trade value of £166,200 each but as to whether they will achieve anything close to this an auction is an interesting question.
We also have 2 partially completed units from the 5 batch and the latest update states 2 are
78% complete and
well I hope this is out of date! How many bidders for a caravan shell - I suspect not many!
I asked FS for clarification - normal "soon to be updates" reply.
I also asked them to post photos and model details on their site..as to why this was not already done I was far too polite to ask!
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coop
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Post by coop on Feb 15, 2019 11:53:21 GMT
Forgive my ignorance but not entirely sure what the confusion is. For the loan for the Five Park Homes, only two were ever built. The security on the other three was just a complete lie as these were only ever going to be built once the first two were sold, hence the loan was never secured on 5 homes in the first place but two. The description about % of completion of these other 3 homes in the prospectus was...well a lie as it now turns out they were nothing more than a few planks of wood and an idea. Will you get your money back. No. In my opinion best to write this one off and put it down to experience. On my spreadsheet of expected recoveries from FS loans I have it down as I expect 1% recovery, and this is probably generous. Even if they sell for a small amount at auction sure FS will take off the auction fee, transport costs etc. to leave us with next to nothing. Sorry to be cynical but that is how I see it. You're not the cynical one here. In listing a loan as being secured against 5 homes when it was only ever secured against two FS are clearly far more cynical than any of us...
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coop
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Post by coop on Feb 15, 2019 11:55:40 GMT
Highly unlikely as as Far as I’m aware there has. Never been 100% loss on a primary loan where there is an actual movable asset. Think the notorious Garnet was nearest. As the assets are assigned to the loans the 2 park homes have different ranking. I think the 5 park homes have equal ranking. It shouldn’t matter if you invested the prudent <1% in any loan/project I think Whitehaven was nearest, with proceeds from the sale of the asset delivered a 2% recovery after costs - fortunately I avoided that one. Personally, I consider the Ablrate shipping container loans a 100% capital loss and those certainly were "movable" assets, which was part of the problem Personally my max in any FS loan is 0.1% I nearly invested in those containers! Looking back it was too good to be true wasn't it? Iirc it was like "Hey, buy a container for £800 by the time it's got here from China it will be worth £1,200!" or some other such nonsense!
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