am
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Post by am on Oct 2, 2016 10:14:45 GMT
There's an equity raise at https://www.q*******s.co
No date visible to me, but it might be more recent than the (2014) Seedrs campaign.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 2, 2016 10:32:09 GMT
There's an equity raise at .... No date visible to me, but it might be more recent than the (2014) Seedrs campaign. Yep, I just found that. Looking as comments on directors loan do make reference to repayment if 200k or more raised in current equity raise. MoneyThing cant see any reference to them seeking other forms of funding in addition to loan. (Note a similar figure for 2016 equity round 4 in numbers section)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 10:41:26 GMT
bonded wharehouse. Basically HMRC gets interested the moment there is booze in the liquid. They monitor stocks at production and along the logistics process until the wine goes into "bond". Phrases like "tight as a bear's..." come to mind.
Knowing the trade well, as soon as the bottles have been filled they need to be under bond. Bonded storage allows the wines to develop or get worse depending on your point of view. The issues of control will be very tight so don't worry about that. The nice thing about storing it away from wine producers is that they are less likely to pinch it. The brand under discussion does not have a great name but makes a profit, they are merely leveraging.
The issue of value against cost again is a bit spurious, unless we are clear if duty etc is included. If duty is included then I might be in, if not, forget it.
So Ed DUTY in the cost please?
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 2, 2016 10:47:30 GMT
My impression is that a significant proportion of the Champagne market in the UK is sold through special offers in supermarkets particularly at Christmas.
This sets a price expectation for the mass market at around £12 per bottle.
Presumably this is the target market for the non-vintage D**** F*** W*** but their cheapest offering is about £30.
This leaves these non-vintage wines a niche market.
"Ooh, this is nice Champagne" "It is English actually" "No, really?"
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jfm
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Post by jfm on Oct 2, 2016 11:08:13 GMT
... If duty is included ... Surely the idea of the bonded warehouse is that the duty is not paid until it comes out of there in a couple of years time - seems unlikely to be in current "cost"?
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Post by trentenders on Oct 2, 2016 11:34:54 GMT
... If duty is included ... Surely the idea of the bonded warehouse is that the duty is not paid until it comes out of there in a couple of years time - seems unlikely to be in current "cost"? This+1 Duty is not payable whilst under storage at a bonded warehouse. Edit: The reassurance I would like is whether or not the proposer has insurance for the goods whilst in store, or whether they are reliant upon the (warehouse-keeper's liability) insurance held by the warehouse operators.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 2, 2016 11:41:38 GMT
Well on the plus side, at least if this one goes grape-shaped there wont be any difficulties with drowning our sorrows I suppose we could just turn it into Brandy ... somone will drink it
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Oct 2, 2016 12:01:45 GMT
MoneyThing- What assets do D**** F*** E****** Ltd have as there is fixed and floating charge over their assets too? - Is the SSAS loan the only other current debenture over the company? - Its mentioned that the loan will be used to purchase further stock, will that stock be purchased by one one of the two companies where there is a fixed and floating charge (hence further lowering the LTV), or another company? Thanks
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am
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Post by am on Oct 2, 2016 12:07:44 GMT
Surely the idea of the bonded warehouse is that the duty is not paid until it comes out of there in a couple of years time - seems unlikely to be in current "cost"? This+1 Duty is not payable whilst under storage at a bonded warehouse. Edit: The reassurance I would like is whether or not the proposer has insurance for the goods whilst in store, or whether they are reliant upon the (warehouse-keeper's liability) insurance held by the warehouse operators. From the Information Pack under Conditions Precedent "A certificate from ... (w)inery denoting that the stock is fully insured and evidence of the existence of the insurance policy." I don't see a stated requirement for the insurance to be renewed, but, anyway, the implication is that they are reliant on the warehouse operator's insurance.
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Post by ivorf41 on Oct 2, 2016 12:09:07 GMT
I've read the F&P prospectus and the MT commentary text several times, and I still don't really understand this set-up. Am I correct in understanding that D***y themselves neither grow the grapes that are used in their product, nor do they actually manufacture their product? That the product is actually made by F***** P*** F*** (W***** E***** W****y) under contract? How is F***** P*** F*** in any sense a 'bonded warehouse'? Are D**** essentially just finance, brand-building and marketing, and wholly dependent on third parties for the quality of their raw materials and the quality of their finished product (and hence its reputation)? The fifth paragraph of the Sponsor's Report (page 5 of the Info pack) states (my boldening) "The loan will be secured by debenture of all the assets of D**** W*** L****** which is the manufacturer and an inter-company guarantee from D**** F*** E****** L******, the holding company. This secure method of storage will enable us to monitor and control the stock to ensure that the present loan never exceeds 50% of the value of the stock held by the company at any time. " What secure method of storage is being referred to? This statement is a complete non-sequitur. Indeed, I found most of the Information Pack seemed more designed to obscure the fundamentals of the borrower's operation and the nature of the lenders' security than to elucidate it. Is it just me, or does anybody else find it unclear? Could anybody (Moneything? pleeease?) shed some light.
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Post by ivorf41 on Oct 2, 2016 12:09:58 GMT
I've read the F&P prospectus and the MT commentary text several times, and I still don't really understand this set-up. Am I correct in understanding that D***y themselves neither grow the grapes that are used in their product, nor do they actually manufacture their product? That the product is actually made by F***** P*** F*** (W***** E***** W****y) under contract? How is F***** P*** F*** in any sense a 'bonded warehouse'? Are D**** essentially just finance, brand-building and marketing, and wholly dependent on third parties for the quality of their raw materials and the quality of their finished product (and hence its reputation)? The fifth paragraph of the Sponsor's Report (page 5 of the Info pack) states (my boldening) "The loan will be secured by debenture of all the assets of D**** W*** L****** which is the manufacturer and an inter-company guarantee from D**** F*** E****** L******, the holding company. This secure method of storage will enable us to monitor and control the stock to ensure that the present loan never exceeds 50% of the value of the stock held by the company at any time. " What secure method of storage is being referred to? This statement is a complete non-sequitur. Indeed, I found most of the Information Pack seemed more designed to obscure the fundamentals of the borrower's operation and the nature of the lenders' security than to elucidate it. Is it just me, or does anybody else find it unclear? Could anybody (Moneything? pleeease?) shed some light.
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Post by trentenders on Oct 2, 2016 12:14:06 GMT
This+1 Duty is not payable whilst under storage at a bonded warehouse. Edit: The reassurance I would like is whether or not the proposer has insurance for the goods whilst in store, or whether they are reliant upon the (warehouse-keeper's liability) insurance held by the warehouse operators. From the Information Pack under Conditions Precedent "A certificate from ... (w)inery denoting that the stock is fully insured and evidence of the existence of the insurance policy." I don't see a stated requirement for the insurance to be renewed, but, anyway, the implication is that they are reliant on the warehouse operator's insurance. Then that is a big concern. It is very, very likely that the insurance will only respond if the warehouse is negligent for any loss/damage, and depending on the conditions of storage used then liability could well be limited to peanuts - e.g. both UKWA and RHA conditions of storage (the most common two sets of conditions used by bonded warehouses) limit liability to just £100 per tonne. MoneyThing - Could you please confirm whether the insurance policyholder is our borrower or the warehouse-keeper? If the latter, is this a warehouse-keeping liability policy? If not, how does the warehouse get around insuring the actual goods (due to a lack of insurable interest)?
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Post by ivorf41 on Oct 2, 2016 12:20:50 GMT
I've read the F&P prospectus and the MT commentary text several times, and I still don't really understand this set-up. Am I correct in understanding that D***y themselves neither grow the grapes that are used in their product, nor do they actually manufacture their product? That the product is actually made by F***** P*** F*** (W***** E***** W****y) under contract? How is F***** P*** F*** in any sense a 'bonded warehouse'? Are D**** essentially just finance, brand-building and marketing, and wholly dependent on third parties for the quality of their raw materials and the quality of their finished product (and hence its reputation)? The fifth paragraph of the Sponsor's Report (page 5 of the Info pack) states (my boldening) "The loan will be secured by debenture of all the assets of D**** W*** L****** which is the manufacturer and an inter-company guarantee from D**** F*** E****** L******, the holding company. This secure method of storage will enable us to monitor and control the stock to ensure that the present loan never exceeds 50% of the value of the stock held by the company at any time. " What secure method of storage is being referred to? This statement is a complete non-sequitur. Indeed, I found most of the Information Pack seemed more designed to obscure the fundamentals of the borrower's operation and the nature of the lenders' security than to elucidate it. Is it just me, or does anybody else find it unclear? Could anybody (Moneything? pleeease?) shed some light. I am Ivor Freedman and my company F & P Sponsors Ltd sponsored this loan on Moneything 1) Not owning a vineyard. This is to me a distinct advantage. D**** have a contract with farmers to take their crops each year. That means that they only pay for what they receive and if any year there is a poor harvest then the risk is with the vineyard not D****. This set up us well known in the trade as "negociant" Some of the largest brands in the world operate this way. D**** have a contract with a winemaker to make and store the wine for them. The winery make their own wine and also offer this service to other winemakers. You can appreciate that there is a large capital investment in plant and equipment and this arrangement is economical for all parties and makes a lot of sense. 2) The wine is held in a Bonded Warehouse whereby the stock cannot leave without paying the excise duty or transferring to another bonded warehouse. HMRC require strict controls on the movements in nd out of the bonded store. 3) Our Information pack is intended to be read with a full document explaining the whole D**** proposition and prepared by them. If it has not been uploaded , I will ask Moneything to do so. Hope this helps
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Post by ivorf41 on Oct 2, 2016 12:48:34 GMT
bonded wharehouse. Basically HMRC gets interested the moment there is booze in the liquid. They monitor stocks at production and along the logistics process until the wine goes into "bond". Phrases like "tight as a bear's..." come to mind. Knowing the trade well, as soon as the bottles have been filled they need to be under bond. Bonded storage allows the wines to develop or get worse depending on your point of view. The issues of control will be very tight so don't worry about that. The nice thing about storing it away from wine producers is that they are less likely to pinch it. The brand under discussion does not have a great name but makes a profit, they are merely leveraging. The issue of value against cost again is a bit spurious, unless we are clear if duty etc is included. If duty is included then I might be in, if not, forget it. So Ed DUTY in the cost please? I am Ivor Freedman and my firm has sponsored this loan on Moneything. Duty is only payable when stock leaves the bonded warehouse, unless it goes to another bonded warehouse. Some customers like M&S buy the wine in store and pay the duty as they take it out. The stock is included at absolute cost. However it should be borne in mind that it takes upto 3 years for the wine to mature and therefore one could say that the wine becomes more valuable over time as it nears maturity. This has not been taken into account in cost. Our facility is to fund the stockholding as this business grows. Moneything commissioned a report from Moore Stephens, a well known firm of accountants.The partner concerned is a specialist in "food and drink" and had experience of liquidating ( no pun intended)a winery due to an acrimonious divorce. He advised that the LTV was realistic and suggested some additional security which have been included. The demand for D**** wine is growing fast and in order to have stock later they have to lay it down now. Our facility is to assist with this issue. The renaissance of English wine is in its early stage. English sparkling wine is very highly thought of and D**** is one of the leading brands. The first shipment tooth USA was sent 3 weeks ago and the signs are that there will be good demand from this market.
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Post by MoneyThing on Oct 2, 2016 12:51:38 GMT
I've read the F&P prospectus and the MT commentary text several times, and I still don't really understand this set-up. Am I correct in understanding that D***y themselves neither grow the grapes that are used in their product, nor do they actually manufacture their product? That the product is actually made by F***** P*** F*** (W***** E***** W****y) under contract? How is F***** P*** F*** in any sense a 'bonded warehouse'? Are D**** essentially just finance, brand-building and marketing, and wholly dependent on third parties for the quality of their raw materials and the quality of their finished product (and hence its reputation)? The fifth paragraph of the Sponsor's Report (page 5 of the Info pack) states (my boldening) "The loan will be secured by debenture of all the assets of D**** W*** L****** which is the manufacturer and an inter-company guarantee from D**** F*** E****** L******, the holding company. This secure method of storage will enable us to monitor and control the stock to ensure that the present loan never exceeds 50% of the value of the stock held by the company at any time. " What secure method of storage is being referred to? This statement is a complete non-sequitur. Indeed, I found most of the Information Pack seemed more designed to obscure the fundamentals of the borrower's operation and the nature of the lenders' security than to elucidate it. Is it just me, or does anybody else find it unclear? Could anybody (Moneything? pleeease?) shed some light. I am Ivor Freedman and my company F & P Sponsors Ltd sponsored this loan on Moneything 1) Not owning a vineyard. This is to me a distinct advantage. D**** have a contract with farmers to take their crops each year. That means that they only pay for what they receive and if any year there is a poor harvest then the risk is with the vineyard not D****. This set up us well known in the trade as "negociant" Some of the largest brands in the world operate this way. D**** have a contract with a winemaker to make and store the wine for them. The winery make their own wine and also offer this service to other winemakers. You can appreciate that there is a large capital investment in plant and equipment and this arrangement is economical for all parties and makes a lot of sense. 2) The wine is held in a Bonded Warehouse whereby the stock cannot leave without paying the excise duty or transferring to another bonded warehouse. HMRC require strict controls on the movements in nd out of the bonded store. 3) Our Information pack is intended to be read with a full document explaining the whole D**** proposition and prepared by them. If it has not been uploaded , I will ask Moneything to do so. Hope this helps ...3) My mistake - additional document added to the listing. Regards, Ed.
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