mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 29, 2016 20:02:10 GMT
Yes, perhaps if Liz asked them nicely, I'm sure they would return her bid ... It's too late -- Phase 1 has reached full funding and been activated.  I did think Liz might have forgotten to include a smiley in her message, but I made my comment anyway because my observation applied no matter who the £90k investor was.
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Post by eascogo on Oct 29, 2016 21:04:32 GMT
eascogo Your SM statistics are great for a non-taxpayer, but very few loan parts are at discount to a 20% taxpayer and almost none to a 40% taxpayer. When you factor in those loan parts that originally had 1% cashback (and those with backdated interest at the beginning), then from the seller's point of view there are almost no parts at discount However, from a non-taxpayer view it is heaven. A non-taxpayer can pick loans close to the 31 day window and get an effective rate of 25% or more, and that doesn't include compounding. 25% compounded monthly is 28%, and 30% compounded monthly is 34.5%. The current problem is that not enough large property loans are renewed on time, so the non-taxpayer is not getting the effective buyer rate, and not getting the full monthly compounding. I've suggested to FS that the borrower should pay a default rate if they don't renew on time. Some other platforms do this and I think it works well. It would need to be written into new contracts so don't expect to see any default rates in the next 6 months. . I realise that a taxpayer buying discounted parts on the SM could gain only for loans with few active days. Increasing active days quickly erode profits for the buyer before turning negative given that the tax burden is inherited for the whole duration of the loan. A graph plotting discount against days active would be useful to evaluate this tradeoff. I recollect that someone on this forum produced a excel chart that allowed for different rates of taxation. I will try to dig for it.
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Oct 29, 2016 21:21:57 GMT
eascogoA spreadsheet may be of interest to some lenders, but it is unusual events which make a significant difference. Currently, a non-taxpayer can get an effective rate of 109.5% on loan 2774480062, that isn't going to show up in any spreadsheet. It's possible because this loan is renewing tomorrow and it available at 0.3% discount on the SM. (0.3% x 365 days is 109.5%) Of course, the effective rate will drop if the loan takes more than one day to fill, but it isn't huge, and the FS new underwriting policy makes this loan a cast iron buy for non-taxpayers.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 29, 2016 21:42:35 GMT
Currently, a non-taxpayer can get an effective rate of 109.5% on loan 2774480062... ISTM that FS have made a slight error with this 'renewal'. They've sent an email announcement, and they've posted it in the New Loans thread on the forum, but they've failed to put an update on the loan itself. And I'm not sure how long it will take to fund. Even if all the existing investors have their 'Renew?' option set on, the new loan still will need £65.5k more investment to be fully funded.
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Post by eascogo on Oct 29, 2016 22:25:22 GMT
eascogo A spreadsheet may be of interest to some lenders, but it is unusual events which make a significant difference. Currently, a non-taxpayer can get an effective rate of 109.5% on loan 2774480062, that isn't going to show up in any spreadsheet. It's possible because this loan is renewing tomorrow and it available at 0.3% discount on the SM. (0.3% x 365 days is 109.5%) Of course, the effective rate will drop if the loan takes more than one day to fill, but it isn't huge, and the FS new underwriting policy makes this loan a cast iron buy for non-taxpayers. It's gone! From FS update 34min ago: This loan is no longer saleable on the secondary market as the borrower has requested a new loan which will, in part, repay this one. The new loan will be treated as a renewal to ensure existing investors are able to rollover their investments if they so wish.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 29, 2016 22:40:28 GMT
Currently, a non-taxpayer can get an effective rate of 109.5% on loan 2774480062... ISTM that FS have made a slight error with this 'renewal'. They've sent an email announcement, and they've posted it in the New Loans thread on the forum, but they've failed to put an update on the loan itself. Currently, a non-taxpayer can get an effective rate of 109.5% on loan 2774480062, that isn't going to show up in any spreadsheet. It's gone! From FS update 34min ago: This loan is no longer saleable on the secondary market as the borrower has requested a new loan which will, in part, repay this one. The new loan will be treated as a renewal to ensure existing investors are able to rollover their investments if they so wish. It could just be a coincidence, but I suspect this means that FS are watching this forum closely -- even at 2300 on a Saturday evening! And that's not a complaint -- it's intended as a compliment.
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Oct 29, 2016 23:10:04 GMT
eascogo A spreadsheet may be of interest to some lenders, but it is unusual events which make a significant difference. Currently, a non-taxpayer can get an effective rate of 109.5% on loan 2774480062, that isn't going to show up in any spreadsheet. It's possible because this loan is renewing tomorrow and it available at 0.3% discount on the SM. (0.3% x 365 days is 109.5%) Of course, the effective rate will drop if the loan takes more than one day to fill, but it isn't huge, and the FS new underwriting policy makes this loan a cast iron buy for non-taxpayers. It's gone! From FS update 34min ago: This loan is no longer saleable on the secondary market as the borrower has requested a new loan which will, in part, repay this one. The new loan will be treated as a renewal to ensure existing investors are able to rollover their investments if they so wish. Oh well, there is still loan 1371004427 available at a discount of 1.5%. That's 547.5% for non-taxpayers if the renewal gets underwritten Monday morning.
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Post by charliebrown on Oct 30, 2016 12:16:56 GMT
Can anyone give me the benefit of their FS experience. Are FS loans generally a good investment and is FS generally a good platform? I've been investing on SS over the past 6 months or so and so far have found it OK. However, it's not perfect (nothing ever is): there's quite a lot of short/ negative days loans, updates/ communications from SS are poor, it's quite hard to get as much money as I would like into quality loans (prefunding is meagure and SM is a frenzy when trying to grab anything decent). This is not a dig at SS, I'm actually a big fan, it's an enquiry as to whether FS is a good place to park some money (probably, over time, somewhere between 50-100k) The rates look great at face value, but what's FS's track record? Any experience to share? If you say go do your own research, I'd understand. However, if any regular FS investors have a spare 10 mins and wouldn't mind giving me a heads up I'd be grateful.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Oct 30, 2016 13:09:37 GMT
Can anyone give me the benefit of their FS experience. Are FS loans generally a good investment and is FS generally a good platform? I've been investing on SS over the past 6 months or so and so far have found it OK. However, it's not perfect (nothing ever is): there's quite a lot of short/ negative days loans, updates/ communications from SS are poor, it's quite hard to get as much money as I would like into quality loans (prefunding is meagure and SM is a frenzy when trying to grab anything decent). This is not a dig at SS, I'm actually a big fan, it's an enquiry as to whether FS is a good place to park some money (probably, over time, somewhere between 50-100k) The rates look great at face value, but what's FS's track record? Any experience to share? If you say go do your own research, I'd understand. However, if any regular FS investors have a spare 10 mins and wouldn't mind giving me a heads up I'd be grateful. I've not been in FS long enough to judge and doubt they even have much of track record YET. I do find there statistics difficult to judge, so I take a cautious approach. Loans are struggling to fill and non-taxpayers struggle to sell on the SM at a fair value due to it's quirks. I would say read the forum, understand there is no PF, understand interest is rolled up and understand fully the workings of the SM. You can also get good property loans on Moneything and Thincats. Good luck
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2016 15:08:59 GMT
Well FS debt recovery service seems to have work a lot, but maybe it is one of their core skills. Certainly they return capital and interest. I'd look at MT before them, but FS deserves attention too.
I think there is also a benefit from having a number of portals just to increase overall diversification.
Diversification is an important of P2P investment.
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Oct 30, 2016 17:52:24 GMT
non-taxpayers struggle to sell on the SM at a fair value due to it's quirks. The FS model is designed for a non-taxpayer wanting to buy on the SM, not sell on the SM. A non-taxpayer buying on the SM, with a short timeframe to renewal, can get fantastic rates of return. Last night there was a £1000 available at 109.5% return, but you had to be quick. Currently a non-taxpayer can get 28% on a loan with 32 days to renewal with a first charge LTV of 30%. No other P2P platform offers that rate of return with asset security.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Oct 30, 2016 19:01:33 GMT
non-taxpayers struggle to sell on the SM at a fair value due to it's quirks. The FS model is designed for a non-taxpayer wanting to buy on the SM, not sell on the SM. A non-taxpayer buying on the SM, with a short timeframe to renewal, can get fantastic rates of return. Last night there was a £1000 available at 109.5% return, but you had to be quick. Currently a non-taxpayer can get 28% on a loan with 32 days to renewal with a first charge LTV of 30%. No other P2P platform offers that rate of return with asset security. I wasn't designed for a non-taxpayer, it was designed to fit with roll-up interest and just happened to help dodge tax; good luck when the taxman challenges this arrangement. You only get 28%(annualised) on a 28 day loan if they repay, so it is a risky strategy, buyer beware. The OP did say he wanted to "park" some cash in FS, that's why I was saying make sure you FULLY understand the working of the SM. Non-taxpayers that need to sell investments midterm would be better using another site as a "park"
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
Posts: 1,428
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Post by sqh on Oct 30, 2016 19:42:52 GMT
Liz The FS model is designed for a non-taxpayer wanting to buy on the SM, not sell on the SM. A non-taxpayer buying on the SM, with a short timeframe to renewal, can get fantastic rates of return. Last night there was a £1000 available at 109.5% return, but you had to be quick. Currently a non-taxpayer can get 28% on a loan with 32 days to renewal with a first charge LTV of 30%. No other P2P platform offers that rate of return with asset security. I wasn't designed for a non-taxpayer, it was designed to fit with roll-up interest and just happened to help dodge tax; good luck when the taxman challenges this arrangement. You only get 28%(annualised) on a 28 day loan if they repay, so it is a risky strategy, buyer beware. The OP did say he wanted to "park" some cash in FS, that's why I was saying make sure you FULLY understand the working of the SM. Non-taxpayers that need to sell investments midterm would be better using another site as a "park" Buying on the SM is not a tax dodge, it's just that the buyer is taking the responsibility for accrued interest. If the buyer has an unused tax allowance that's fine. Any financial advisor would recommend using your unused tax allowance.
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Post by eascogo on Oct 30, 2016 22:23:22 GMT
charliebrown. Some of the quirks of the SM as described on this thread are worth understanding. The SM can offer advantages not available elsewhere. Its use can benefit buyers/sellers under some conditions. An important feature however is liquidity and a so-so rating would probably be the majority view. I have invested in FS for about one year with a high 5-figure sum. Only half as much is with MS -- my preferred platform-- but this is mainly because of the bid limit restrictions. I aim to rebalance gradually. FS is racing along with loan offers that are slow to fill. It offers 13%pa for most of its loans with added cashbacks and bonuses. Not so long ago FS, like MT and SS now, was experiencing feeding frenzy. One further factor induces caution -- the number of loans not redeeming at term. This is the case for 15 of my 50 loans, 3 of those are now marked as renewing. Bridging loans delays are expected but such concentration of delays feels unhealthy. I hope some will repay soon. Only time will tell how effective FS is at recovery where that is necessary. It is also worth bearing in mind that P2P platforms have experienced rapid changes so it is advisable to diversify across platforms and keep a fair portion out of P2P. Advice vary, some recommend only 10% in P2P. But this is not just about risk tolerance. Age, job, civil status, health all need to be considered. To me 60% in P2P is fine with the remainder in S&S ISAs. Ups and downs expected. Am retired, mortgage paid, secure pension income, so risks taken on board. Putin/Trump another unquantified risk.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 1, 2016 11:31:18 GMT
The recent decision by FS to start using Underwriters to fill some of the long-running renewal loans (and so permit the return of overdue funds to the original lenders) is already having a beneficial effect on liquidity, IMO, both in the PM and the SM. I have to wonder what it's doing to FS operating margins by taking on this additional expense, but if it permits FS loan origination to continue apace then the overall effect must be positive (provided, of course, there continues to be equal focus on the recovery of distressed loans).
Having previously taken a decision to manage down my overall FS exposure (as and when renewals eventually filled or overdue loans repaid), I've decided for now to switch back to reinvesting repayments as they come through, in the hope / expectation that this positive initiative will be maintained. Certainly FS offers some very attractive propositions currently, to individual and company lenders alike, compared to one or two other platforms I can think of ...
(I do still think it would be well worth highlighting the underwritten renewal loans in some way on the "Available Loans" page, to help mitigate the impression that there's a long list of slow-filling loans all awaiting completion. Perhaps they could be shaded in a background colour, or else a "U" icon added).
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