pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Oct 19, 2016 8:15:02 GMT
So far my wife has incured no losses ,nor in the immediate future hopefully likley to. .However that evil day must come,as a non tax payer she can not recover any part of any loss.Is there any way i can claim against my tax,self employed, or will she just have to roll up the numbers until in some distant time she incures a tax bill and can reclaim.What records will we need to keep,she is self emplyed in her own right but under the income limit and submiting an annual short tax return.I am shure others must be in a similar position on the site, any info gratefully recieved. That is a interesting question. If losses in any year in which she is a non-taxpayer are less than the gross p2p income for that year it would be perfectly fair for her to get no relief. She'd just have an amount of net income that is tax free in her hands. I think the legislation achieves that, because (paraphrasing for simplicity) s412(C)(1) permits a loss to be carried forward only if, in the year that the losses arose, the lender has no, or insufficient, p2p income from which to deduct the loss. I think this test is applied without regard to whether the lender is taxable on the income. The actual words of the legislation are: 412C Claims for additional relief: carry-forward relief (1) A person (“L”) may make a claim for relief under this section if— (a) L is entitled to relief under section 412A in respect of any outstanding amount of the principal of a loan (“the relevant loan”), but (b) in the tax year in relation to which L is entitled to that relief (“the relevant year”)— (i) L has no income of the kind mentioned in section 412A(4) or section 412B(3) from which to deduct the outstanding amount, or (ii) L has insufficient income of that kind to enable the outstanding amount to be deducted in full under those sections.
If in any year her losses exceed her p2p income then she will be able to carry forward the excess for up to four tax years [s412C(2)], but the carry forward rules work so that the loss must be claimed as soon as possible. If, in the subsequent years before she becomes a taxpayer, there is enough net p2p income to absorb the carried forward loss, there will be nothing left to claim by the time that she becomes a taxpayer. Below is the text of s412D which explains all this: 412D How carry-forward relief works (1) This subsection explains how deductions are to be made under section 412C. The amount to be deducted at any step is limited in accordance with section 25(4) and (5).
Step 1 Deduct the outstanding amount or (in a case within section 412C(1)(b)(ii)) the part of the outstanding amount not capable of being deducted under sections 412A and 412B from the lending income for the first tax year following the relevant year.
Step 2 Deduct from the lending income for the second tax year following the relevant year any part of the outstanding amount not previously deducted.
Step 3 Apply Step 2 in relation to the lending income for the third and fourth tax years following the relevant year, stopping if all of the outstanding amount is deducted. (2) In this section— “lending income” means income of a kind mentioned in section 412C(3); “relevant year” has the meaning given by section 412C(1)(b).
Finally, I don't think there is any way that you could claim the loss yourself. It might be worth considering whether you, as a self-employed person, could pay your wife a salary to get her to a taxpaying position. But I have no knowledge or experience of what you might be able to get away with do in this regard
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Post by lynnanthony on Oct 19, 2016 11:20:07 GMT
So far my wife has incured no losses ,nor in the immediate future hopefully likley to. .However that evil day must come, as a non tax payer she can not recover any part of any loss.Is there any way i can claim against my tax,self employed, or will she just have to roll up the numbers until in some distant time she incures a tax bill and can reclaim.What records will we need to keep,she is self emplyed in her own right but under the income limit and submiting an annual short tax return.I am shure others must be in a similar position on the site, any info gratefully recieved. That seems perfectly fair to me! It is after all only tax that tax payers are recovering against losses. If you don't pay tax you can't really expect to recover it. Allowing tax payers to recover tax on losses on p2p just puts us in the same position as any business; we pay tax on the overall profit, gains minus losses.
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Oct 22, 2016 17:59:31 GMT
...... the loan is either irrecoverable (which is what you are focusing on) or treated as irrecoverable. ..... Those bolded words have been haunting me for a year now when working through my tax returns. I'm tempted to request them on my grave stone ............ "Here lies Duck, expired. Treated, but not found to be Recoverable"
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bg
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Post by bg on Feb 25, 2017 22:35:57 GMT
Tax issues aside do you think there's any chance of AC actually defaulting this loan on the platform? I'm currently sitting with £11k accrued interest on this holding (and rising) and it's distorting all my figures (and aside from anything else it makes me wince every time I look at it).
Surely they can default (and therefore write down in the system) this loan without giving up any claim (as they do on FC and other platforms). There is not going to be any further recoveries but if by miracle there was they could always credit the proceeds to lender accounts.
Is this too much to ask for or is my account going to be misstated by this (ever growing) amount forever more?
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agent69
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Plumber
Feb 26, 2017 19:35:16 GMT
bg likes this
Post by agent69 on Feb 26, 2017 19:35:16 GMT
Tax issues aside do you think there's any chance of AC actually defaulting this loan on the platform? I'm currently sitting with £11k accrued interest on this holding (and rising) and it's distorting all my figures (and aside from anything else it makes me wince every time I look at it). Surely they can default (and therefore write down in the system) this loan without giving up any claim (as they do on FC and other platforms). There is not going to be any further recoveries but if by miracle there was they could always credit the proceeds to lender accounts. Is this too much to ask for or is my account going to be misstated by this (ever growing) amount forever more? Have you looked at the 23rd Feb update? Lender vote coming soon on whether to introduce some form of hibernation status. or just default it.
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bg
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Post by bg on Feb 26, 2017 20:03:21 GMT
Tax issues aside do you think there's any chance of AC actually defaulting this loan on the platform? I'm currently sitting with £11k accrued interest on this holding (and rising) and it's distorting all my figures (and aside from anything else it makes me wince every time I look at it). Surely they can default (and therefore write down in the system) this loan without giving up any claim (as they do on FC and other platforms). There is not going to be any further recoveries but if by miracle there was they could always credit the proceeds to lender accounts. Is this too much to ask for or is my account going to be misstated by this (ever growing) amount forever more? Have you looked at the 23rd Feb update? Lender vote coming soon on whether to introduce some form of hibernation status. or just default it. Ah, I hadn't seen that one! I would like to write it to zero in the system while still pursuing the guarantor (as FC would do). Surely that will be possible!
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Mar 24, 2017 14:43:33 GMT
Tax issues aside do you think there's any chance of AC actually defaulting this loan on the platform? I'm currently sitting with £11k accrued interest on this holding (and rising) and it's distorting all my figures (and aside from anything else it makes me wince every time I look at it). Surely they can default (and therefore write down in the system) this loan without giving up any claim (as they do on FC and other platforms). There is not going to be any further recoveries but if by miracle there was they could always credit the proceeds to lender accounts. Is this too much to ask for or is my account going to be misstated by this (ever growing) amount forever more? Have you looked at the 23rd Feb update? Lender vote coming soon on whether to introduce some form of hibernation status. or just default it. AC probably want to avoid that action as long as possible, as new investors would probably be put off by the fact that the "borrower" of this "loan" only made 2 payments before defaulting. Then most of asset securities just "disappeared". They could of course avoid looking bad and actually come up smelling of roses by holding their hands up and admitting they made a judgement error, and payback all losses inc. interest to all lenders.
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Post by andrewholgate on Mar 24, 2017 15:19:11 GMT
First of all, we are looking at write offs and how they would work on the system. We should have a solution soon.
Secondly, the loan technically didn't go after 2 payments. This was a restructured loan and they had performed very well up to the restructure. We put the proposal to lenders who agreed by voting to restructure the loan. The collapse of two contracts was catastrophic on the business.
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