r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Oct 23, 2016 4:49:27 GMT
Hi, savingstream . I think it's fair to say we now urgently need a fresh general update on the state of the loanbook. Here were your last updates from 5 weeks ago for some of the overdue loans, text in red is mine: PBL038 -Repayment expected 22nd September (now 1 month ago)PBL039 -Repayment expected 22nd September (now 1 month ago)PBL047 - We are still waiting on repayment. In communication with the borrower who is expecting to receive funds next week. (now 1 month ago)PBL048- We are still waiting on repayment. In communication with the borrower who is expecting to receive funds next week. (now 1 month ago)
PBL055 - In legals. Expected completion next week (now 1 month ago)PBL057 - We are expecting completion of extension documentation next week (now 1 month ago)PBL062- We are expecting full repayment shortly (2 weeks) ( that was 3 weeks ago)PBL063- We are expecting full repayment shortly (2 weeks) (that was 3 weeks ago)
PBL066 - .....We have asked him to refinance elsewhere and expect this loan to be repaid around the expected repayment date.(which was 2 months ago)PBL067 - .....We have asked him to refinance elsewhere and expect this loan to be repaid around the expected repayment date. (which was 2 months ago)
PBL070 -Repayment expected 22nd September (now 1 month ago)PBL071 -Repayment expected 22nd September (now 1 month ago)
PBL089 - No change (but repayment due 1 month ago)
We can also add PBL037 and PBL069 to this list, for which no update was given (but I assume the update is the same as 38,39,70,71). You currently have circa 8% by value of your loanbook that is both late and with no current reason given publicly to investors. This is me being generous and excluding those late loans which have general "we're doing stuff" updates without specific dates attached e.g. PBL081 which really do also need an update in themselves. Note that I am not of the ilk that expects PBL's to repay exactly on time, that's not my beef. However. as far as I'm concerned, the communication on these loans is unacceptable. if loans are overdue with any uncertainty around the repayment method or if an expected completion date passes, then we should be seeing at least weekly updates.
You've recently acknowledged that you need to provide more loan updates - can you start doing so please?
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btb
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Post by btb on Oct 23, 2016 5:32:54 GMT
Seconded 
And the updates should have been provided before asking for the large funding involved in 143.
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Post by chrisj on Oct 23, 2016 6:13:21 GMT
Feel free not to invest in 143 more for me |
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btb
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Post by btb on Oct 23, 2016 6:17:11 GMT
I have withdrawn my pre-funding, but still hope all goes well for any other investors. That's the joy of being able to make our own decisions |
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Post by karloshi on Oct 23, 2016 7:56:32 GMT
How is it that this isn't kept on top of? Transparency is the key to keeping investors happy. If SS know the current situation of a loan this should be reported to all members of SS in the updates section. I am getting tired of reading "In legals. Expected completion next week" and then see the date was a month ago. It can't be that time consuming to update the information and it makes SS look unprofessional at best, or at worst they know and are hiding something. There are even loans that say interest paid and then the loan is still in minus days. Also what is the legal situation regarding a company in this sector giving false information to investors? I would love to put more money in to SS but this is the main reason I have limited my exposure to the SS platform. A company of this size needs to employ someone full time on communications. Is there even a page showing who the staff are and their responsibilities? Most sites seem to have this - then i know who to blame.
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r00lish67
Member of DD Central
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Post by r00lish67 on Oct 23, 2016 8:06:21 GMT
Feel free not to invest in 143 more for me Unless you're one helluva big hitter, I'm sure you'll get everything you need :-) I'm moaning principally as I'd like to have the confidence to invest more of my money here. I want to see them doing well, even if 'well' means breaking some bad news in a timely manner. The longer we have loans in an unknown state, the more significant the potential discrepancy is between the actual loan performance and the general investor perception of platform performance. Yes, I can avoid these particular loans (and have done so) but I'm sure many investors are influenced by the apparent lack of 'problem' loans on the platform. I'd rather see any gritty reality that there is lurking in these as and when it happens, rather than in a job lot at some undefined unpleasant day which could hit platform confidence significantly. On the positive side, SS do seem to have a knack of eventually turning loans around, but nonetheless the numbers now are making me concerned. One or two, ok, three or four maybe. £10m worth of loans that have updates like "will be repaid on X (where X is a month ago)", not good.
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Post by steelspanner on Oct 23, 2016 8:10:47 GMT
As a new investor with SS this is the one thing that I have been concerned about. I invest in a couple of platforms and was hoping to shift more money across to SS but not confident yet.
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r00lish67
Member of DD Central
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Post by r00lish67 on Oct 23, 2016 8:21:09 GMT
How is it that this isn't kept on top of? Transparency is the key to keeping investors happy. If SS know the current situation of a loan this should be reported to all members of SS in the updates section. I am getting tired of reading "In legals. Expected completion next week" and then see the date was a month ago. It can't be that time consuming to update the information and it makes SS look unprofessional at best, or at worst they know and are hiding something. There are even loans that say interest paid and then the loan is still in minus days. Also what is the legal situation regarding a company in this sector giving false information to investors? I would love to put more money in to SS but this is the main reason I have limited my exposure to the SS platform. A company of this size needs to employ someone full time on communications. Is there even a page showing who the staff are and their responsibilities? Most sites seem to have this - then i know who to blame. Spot on. I actually feel bad for having a bit of a dig at FundingSecure the other day because I had seen a few negative updates on property loans, but actually that transparency gave me a kick to up own game where I had picked loans that clearly were too risky. Perhaps they need to improve their DD too, but at least the relationship status between investor and platform is clear. How many investors on SS are pre-funding every single loan, even if they're a little unsure, because there's only 1 current default on the platform and SM liquidity is great? If that's really the true picture then great, but we really don't know.
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btb
Posts: 11
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Post by btb on Oct 23, 2016 9:24:03 GMT
That's the problem... I don't see only one current loan in default...I see many current loans in default.
The reason I make this assumption is simple - I haven't been told any different by SS and silence speaks volumes.
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SteveT
Member of DD Central
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Post by SteveT on Oct 23, 2016 10:09:11 GMT
That's the problem... I don't see only one current loan in default...I see many current loans in default. You are applying a different definition of "default". SS have explained several times that they default a loan only if / when they become concerned that the security may be insufficient to cover repayment of the loan in full. If a borrower is continuing to work with them and the security is thought still sufficient to cover the loan then the loan, although undoubtedly overdue, will not be defaulted. Coincidentally I've just read a reply given by FC (on the other board) about one of their overdue property loans, explaining that they take the same approach. Defaulting a loan and taking over responsibility for the disposal of the secured asset from the borrower is described as the "nuclear option", incuring substantial costs and potentially undermining the value of the asset. That said, I fully agree that regular updates from SS on overdue loans, especially where previous target dates have come and gone, would help considerably.
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Post by charliebrown on Oct 23, 2016 10:24:00 GMT
This is a good thread, I agree with the sentiments of those posting. It's got to the point where the information on this forum is much more useful and timely than anything on the SS site. I have money in a lot of those overdue loans with no updates and it worries me greatly.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Oct 23, 2016 10:28:28 GMT
I have said before that SS should ditch this silly "one month ago" approximation on updates and just put the actual date in the column. When it says "a month ago" sometimes that actually means up to seven or eight weeks!!! Then it clicks up to "two months ago". When it says "a week ago", that can mean anything up to thirteen days.
For instance, the update saying "repayment on 22 September" for PBL035" was not given one month ago but on 16 September, 37 days ago (and the previous update , also "one month ago" promising repayment imminently!!) was actually on 5 September, 48 days ago.
edit: actual dates of updates can be seen by right clicking on the loan page, then clicking on "view page source" and scrolling down all the coding until you get to the updates part.
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Post by charliebrown on Oct 23, 2016 10:38:13 GMT
I have said before that SS should ditch this silly "one month ago" approximation on updates and just put the actual date in the column. When it says "a month ago" sometimes that actually means up to seven or eight weeks!!! Then it clicks up to "two months ago". When it says "a week ago", that can mean anything up to thirteen days. For instance, the update saying "repayment on 22 September" for PBL035" was not given one month ago but on 16 September, 37 days ago (and the previous update , also "one month ago" promising repayment imminently!!) was actually on 5 September, 48 days ago. edit: actual dates of updates can be seen by right clicking on "view page source" and scrolling down all the coding until you get to the updates part. These Gloucs loans worry me. I think there is another thread on here saying the borrow has declared bankruptcy. How can it be that there is such an update on this forum but no update at all on SS. Can someone confirm this is true, and what's the implications if it is true.
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Post by charliebrown on Oct 23, 2016 10:49:40 GMT
I have said before that SS should ditch this silly "one month ago" approximation on updates and just put the actual date in the column. When it says "a month ago" sometimes that actually means up to seven or eight weeks!!! Then it clicks up to "two months ago". When it says "a week ago", that can mean anything up to thirteen days. For instance, the update saying "repayment on 22 September" for PBL035" was not given one month ago but on 16 September, 37 days ago (and the previous update , also "one month ago" promising repayment imminently!!) was actually on 5 September, 48 days ago. edit: actual dates of updates can be seen by right clicking on "view page source" and scrolling down all the coding until you get to the updates part. These Gloucs loans worry me. I think there is another thread on here saying the borrow has declared bankruptcy. How can it be that there is such an update on this forum but no update at all on SS. Can someone confirm this is true, and what's the implications if it is true. Yes, there's another thread saying the borrower received a bankruptcy order. This illustrates the point being made about updates. The poster of the other thread being "in the know" was able to offload his Gloucs loans on SM, presumably to the people like me who didn't know because SS hadn't provided updates. Unfair.
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r00lish67
Member of DD Central
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Post by r00lish67 on Oct 23, 2016 11:09:49 GMT
These Gloucs loans worry me. I think there is another thread on here saying the borrow has declared bankruptcy. How can it be that there is such an update on this forum but no update at all on SS. Can someone confirm this is true, and what's the implications if it is true. Yes, there's another thread saying the borrower received a bankruptcy order. This illustrates the point being made about updates. The poster of the other thread being "in the know" was able to offload his Gloucs loans on SM, presumably to the people like me who didn't know because SS hadn't provided updates. Unfair. Hi Charlie, whilst I do sympathise, to be fair to SS there is also a line to be drawn between them providing updates and our own due diligence. If SS believe loan repayment will not be affected by a bankruptcy, or something like the situation on PBL064 (another fascinating thread somewhere on here), then they don't necessarily need to give us a blow-by-blow account. Personally, I sold the Gloucs ones ages ago when the borrowers husband's history came to light on this forum - look up "C***** (obvious word from the loans) in the hills" on this is money. It was only when I chased the status of these again a month or so back that it was flagged by a good DD'er here that the borrower herself was now also bankrupt too. Anyway, the good news for you is that SM liquidity is still there for those loans. Don't be put off by a £10k queue, they'll still more than likely sell quickly. Alternatively, some would probably argue that the borrower's circumstance is irrelevant and that the asset is the security. But not me!
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