ramblin rose
Member of DD Central
“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on May 5, 2014 12:57:43 GMT
The confusion here seems relatively obvious to me. When a loan page opens up, the Auto Invest tab is on the top; if a bid has been made, it is filled in and anybody not familiar with it will assume it is active - it would appear that this is what has been happening. Knowing that the button at the bottom is green rather than blue for inactive is hardly intuitive to the newbie - who will not distinguish what the subtleties of the button text imply either. Nor is knowing what AI will do. Surely, it must be a pretty simple fix to put the Bid tab on the top for a live auction and put some simple text at the top of the AI tab indicating that you haven't yet set up AI on that loan and that the amount filled in is merely your current holding, for those who decide to bring that tab up and who haven't done anything with it yet, or who then see it when the loan is fulfilled/active.
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Post by chris on May 5, 2014 14:12:34 GMT
The confusion here seems relatively obvious to me. When a loan page opens up, the Auto Invest tab is on the top; if a bid has been made, it is filled in and anybody not familiar with it will assume it is active - it would appear that this is what has been happening. Knowing that the button at the bottom is green rather than blue for inactive is hardly intuitive to the newbie - who will not distinguish what the subtleties of the button text imply either. Nor is knowing what AI will do. Surely, it must be a pretty simple fix to put the Bid tab on the top for a live auction and put some simple text at the top of the AI tab indicating that you haven't yet set up AI on that loan and that the amount filled in is merely your current holding, for those who decide to bring that tab up and who haven't done anything with it yet, or who then see it when the loan is fulfilled/active. It would be simple but presumes that the bid tab is more important than AI, which it may not be for users who don't know what bidding is. AI getting prominence also fits with our wider picture where there will be more automation and not less. Like it or not that's the way the whole market is moving behind the scenes and I'd rather put those tools in the hands of all users rather than a select few even if they end up having varying levels of prominence for different user types. Other than that I completely agree that it needs to be much clearer as to whether or not AI is enabled and that this has caused most of the confusion on here.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
Posts: 902 
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Post by merlin on May 5, 2014 15:02:43 GMT
Chris
In case you in any doubt KISS in a systems environment means Keep It Simple Stupid. Failing to abide by this simple rule is the root cause of the failure of many systems be they computerised or other wise. However complex a system is, the wise designer removes/hides the inherent complexity of the system to the point where the interface between system and user ensures that the equivalent of the village idiot can use it successfully. As I have pointed out before many of your potential customers are not sophisticated investors and many of them only get involved with P2P because of the poor interest rates on offer in the high street. Loose them at your peril.
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Post by chris on May 5, 2014 15:56:02 GMT
I'm not in any doubt of what you mean. What I'm trying to give members of this forum and other sophisticated users is access to the building blocks that sit underneath those simplifications. As such you're seeing an expansion of complexity a few weeks before the simplicity is layered on top.
AC prior to auto-invest was not KISS. FC is not simple unless you use AutoBid, a practice frowned upon by many on this board. RateSetter is KISS where you have no options on individual loans, you have generic buckets into which you can put your cash and the system automatically then looks after your money and you have to place trust in the platform that their underwriting is working and hope that their provision fund (which is much smaller than the banks held at the time of the last crash) can cover any shortcomings. How many users of this forum would be happy with that approach to AC style loans where we took all control away from them, even though it would be simpler?
Perhaps we're trying to have our cake and eat it but I'm targetting all looking after all users without any one set gaining advantage over the others. Automation is coming regardless of whether or not there are people who don't want it as there are many who are demanding it, some of whom have the resources to build it for themselves if the platform does not provide automation for them. By offering automation to all, with a blend of dead simple through to complex solutions depending on the sophistication of the end user, I hope to prevent any one group dominating the platform through getting an unfair advantage through faster reaction time or speed at which they can carry out bulk operations or through having the computing power to constantly micromanage their entire portfolio. AI sits in the middle of that range of tools, there will be simpler options made available in the coming weeks along with more complex options.
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Post by yorkshireman on May 5, 2014 16:14:11 GMT
I’ve no problem with automation provided it adheres to KISS, however IMO, AI in it’s present form is neither intuitive or user friendly.
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Post by oldnick on May 5, 2014 16:36:31 GMT
Given that chris has said there is more to come, I'm keeping my powder dry. Whilst I don't class myself as a user who needs a paper bag on hand, to breath into when something goes wrong on the screen, I am something of a village idiot with computers. I've been able to use the AI successfully after some initial groping about, so it doesn't seem so bad to me. I've sold and bought some loans, but perhaps I'm asking no more of it than it easily provides at the moment... |
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Post by chris on May 5, 2014 16:37:48 GMT
Given that chris has said there is more to come, I'm keeping my powder dry. Whilst I don't class myself as a user who needs a paper bag on hand, to breath into when something goes wrong on the screen, I am something of a village idiot with computers. I've been able to use the AI successfully after some initial groping about, so it doesn't seem so bad to me. I've sold and bought some loans, but perhaps I'm asking no more of it than it easily provides at the moment... That's all it's meant to provide at the moment, a mechanism via which the system can automatically manage funds in a given loan.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
Posts: 902
Likes: 302
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Post by merlin on May 5, 2014 16:46:26 GMT
I'm not in any doubt of what you mean. What I'm trying to give members of this forum and other sophisticated users is access to the building blocks that sit underneath those simplifications. As such you're seeing an expansion of complexity a few weeks before the simplicity is layered on top. AC prior to auto-invest was not KISS. FC is not simple unless you use AutoBid, a practice frowned upon by many on this board. RateSetter is KISS where you have no options on individual loans, you have generic buckets into which you can put your cash and the system automatically then looks after your money and you have to place trust in the platform that their underwriting is working and hope that their provision fund (which is much smaller than the banks held at the time of the last crash) can cover any shortcomings. How many users of this forum would be happy with that approach to AC style loans where we took all control away from them, even though it would be simpler? Perhaps we're trying to have our cake and eat it but I'm targetting all looking after all users without any one set gaining advantage over the others. Automation is coming regardless of whether or not there are people who don't want it as there are many who are demanding it, some of whom have the resources to build it for themselves if the platform does not provide automation for them. By offering automation to all, with a blend of dead simple through to complex solutions depending on the sophistication of the end user, I hope to prevent any one group dominating the platform through getting an unfair advantage through faster reaction time or speed at which they can carry out bulk operations or through having the computing power to constantly micromanage their entire portfolio. AI sits in the middle of that range of tools, there will be simpler options made available in the coming weeks along with more complex options. I would like to say that I feel reassured by your response but I will wait with interest for the full role out before commenting further. However I will suggest that you do not make the assumption that active members of this forum are a good exemplar of the whole AC population. My guess based on the threads and comments made, is that it is bound to be a mixture but errs more towards the sophisticated investor. However many of the visitors are like to be of the other inclination and it is these who IMO that you need to attract to become investors in AC not frighten them away with complexity.
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Post by chris on May 5, 2014 17:01:14 GMT
We believe we have that in hand, although there are still some compliance questions to be resolved. Even something as simple and seemingly benign as showing a credit band (e.g. A+) can be a breach of the regulations around giving advice even if it is simpler than expecting lenders to read and understand a credit report. But as I say we have a plan that encompasses users of all levels of sophistication.
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Post by yorkshireman on May 5, 2014 17:15:15 GMT
I don’t think it’s a matter of whether you’re a sophisticated investor or not, it’s more likely to be a case of whether, like me, you’re a not a sophisticated computer user and expect things to operate simply and logically.
Out of curiosity, has anyone picked up any parts of the following through AI?
Auction 56 Stourbridge
Auction 64 Kidderminster
Auction 69 Liverpool
Auction 74 Spondon
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on May 5, 2014 17:25:48 GMT
I don’t think it’s a matter of whether you’re a sophisticated investor or not, it’s more likely to be a case of whether, like me, you’re a not a sophisticated computer user and expect things to operate simply and logically.
Out of curiosity, has anyone picked up any parts of the following through AI?
Auction 56 Stourbridge
Auction 64 Kidderminster
Auction 69 Liverpool
Auction 74 Spondon
None for me, neither have I even seen them on the AM, but they're all hotly sort after. If you have them why would you sell; except to spread risk.
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walktall7
Member of DD Central
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Post by walktall7 on May 5, 2014 17:31:23 GMT
I have got some Spondon from AI and have requests for two of the others but no longer have a balance of money since may 2.
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Post by phlitb on May 5, 2014 18:14:46 GMT
To balance some of the criticism of AI and what Chris and the AC team are trying to achieve...
Having started investing tentatively with AC, my increasing confidence in the platform recently reached the point where I felt I could double my exposure. I guess it took about 5 minutes to create AI mandates for all loans in which I wanted a larger (or new) position, and since then AI has done its best to fulfill those with reasonable success.
Without AI I can't imagine how much time would have been wasted lurking on the aftermarket to achieve the same result.
Meanwhile I think it's fair to say that the SS SM is in some respects about as KISS as can be - to the buyer it's indistinguishable from the primary market. As I type, every drawn loan is showing 0.0% availability, and I have my browser set to auto-refresh every 5 minutes just in case something becomes available while I'm at my PC and it catches my eye and I can frantically try and buy a part before someone else gets it. Not a practical way to build an investment portfolio.
I'm guessing that AC are moving towards the point where AI can be invoked to also automatically pick up parts on new loans according to one's
preferred criteria, and investors who make use of that will almost never have to log in at all to manage their investment. And for those investors that would really be as simple as it gets.
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on May 5, 2014 19:20:10 GMT
I don’t think it’s a matter of whether you’re a sophisticated investor or not, it’s more likely to be a case of whether, like me, you’re a not a sophisticated computer user and expect things to operate simply and logically.
Out of curiosity, has anyone picked up any parts of the following through AI?
Auction 56 Stourbridge
Auction 64 Kidderminster
Auction 69 Liverpool
Auction 74 Spondon
None here either despite being very light or having none on those loans. Oddly, last week there were Some £20k worth of manc loan on am but I had no funds,by the time I logged & transferred VIA go c, they were gone, £20k's worth! S*d's law the only time SI would have worked for me i had ran out of money in the account!
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acorn
Posts: 118
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Post by acorn on May 5, 2014 20:39:13 GMT
I'm not in any doubt of what you mean. What I'm trying to give members of this forum and other sophisticated users is access to the building blocks that sit underneath those simplifications. As such you're seeing an expansion of complexity a few weeks before the simplicity is layered on top. AC prior to auto-invest was not KISS. FC is not simple unless you use AutoBid, a practice frowned upon by many on this board. RateSetter is KISS where you have no options on individual loans, you have generic buckets into which you can put your cash and the system automatically then looks after your money and you have to place trust in the platform that their underwriting is working and hope that their provision fund (which is much smaller than the banks held at the time of the last crash) can cover any shortcomings. How many users of this forum would be happy with that approach to AC style loans where we took all control away from them, even though it would be simpler? Perhaps we're trying to have our cake and eat it but I'm targetting all looking after all users without any one set gaining advantage over the others. Automation is coming regardless of whether or not there are people who don't want it as there are many who are demanding it, some of whom have the resources to build it for themselves if the platform does not provide automation for them. By offering automation to all, with a blend of dead simple through to complex solutions depending on the sophistication of the end user, I hope to prevent any one group dominating the platform through getting an unfair advantage through faster reaction time or speed at which they can carry out bulk operations or through having the computing power to constantly micromanage their entire portfolio. AI sits in the middle of that range of tools, there will be simpler options made available in the coming weeks along with more complex options. I'm glad the ambition is to make the platform equally accessible to everyone but I hope the opportunity to learn is not going to be lost. Most people, including me, want to be able to invest at least some of their savings and get a fair return with no nasty surprises and easy access. There are a lot of unsophisticated investors (also including me) who would like to become more adept and in the past a lack of serious money has been a huge obstacle but P2P is changing that. Many people on small incomes become very good at juggling money out of necessity and there is such frustration in being able to see opportunities but not take advantage of them through lack of (large) funds. Apart from the HBL blip, AI seems to have all my requests in hand and I hope to pick up some more chunks this week. I look forward to future developments of the platform and continuing to have a bit of fun as I grow my money!
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