registerme
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Post by registerme on Aug 29, 2017 22:33:47 GMT
/mod hat off @hor1997 if you want to help make the world a better place go and contribute to this thread .
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Aug 29, 2017 23:07:59 GMT
Even then, what with this forum being public and MT openly directing investors to this site, I still see no issues. It would make very little sense from a business point of view for MT to redirect from the main site to a third party forum (specially when sections talk about rival platforms). I can open and set-up a forum on a dedicated domain (or subdomain of the main site) with about 10 GBP (for the domain... I would use one of the trusted open source software solutions for the forum) and one hour effort. MT can do better than this for sure if they wanted to and can open their own forum very easily, if deemed useful. Communication in any case is not only question of choosing the right communication channel, but also the right words (or silence) at the right moment. ./irony?
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Aug 29, 2017 23:16:18 GMT
I've been busy wth other things and only just saw this thread, and haven't logged on to MT website for a couple of days.
This thread and several pages of very recent stuff caused me to temporarily enter panic mode - I didn't even read it all on here before rushing to log onto MT. Then I logged into MT and read the update. Panic over. I've still a bit in this loan and I don't feel any need to sell out. In fact I was quite reassured.
If there is any 'bad news' about a loan I would expect an email from MT to draw my attention to a materially significant update - as happened in another case, and as I know Ed would send in such a circumstance.
Wild speculation based on no facts is unwelcome IMO, and no wonder MT are considering withdrawing from this forum.
Some folks needs to take a chill pill, stop letting their minds run wild, stop scaring others and stop posting stuff that could cause damage to a platform and investors' blood pressure.
Far as I can see, there is zero availability in this loan on the SM so others feel as happy as I do.
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Post by peerlessperil on Aug 29, 2017 23:54:10 GMT
Oh dear. Market Abuse (which includes insider dealing) only applies to the trading of financial instruments. Loan parts are not financial instruments (loans are contracts, if you want financial instruments then stick to the bond markets). Moneything's secondary market is not a regulated market, and the loan parts being traded are not listed securities - and indeed I suspect none of the borrowers on Moneything have any listed bonds or equities to concern ourselves with either. Insider dealing relates to price sensitive information. As loan parts can only trade at par on Moneything it would be interesting to claim anything was "price sensitive". Concerns expressed over "insider dealing" are therefore meaningless in this environment I'm afraid. The trading of loans is still very much the wild, wild west (figuratively speaking) which is why most fund managers have a chinese wall between their loan teams and their bond teams. Indeed, loan investors regularly receive monthly management accounts that could be considered "inside information" for anyone trading the same borrower's corporate bonds. Much as I would like to support Moneything on this particular occasion, Moneything representatives should be mindful that Moneything is FCA regulated, and is therefore subject to the FCA's conduct of business principles, which include stipulations on Integrity, Market Conduct, Conflicts of Interest and communicating fairly with customers. Whilst it is pretty marginal on this occasion, in an ideal world it would have been good if all Moneything lenders were notified in advance that an update would be forthcoming - not just those on the forum today. Hopefully that has bored everyone to sleep. Next. Not even close... I do understand your point; my main issue was with the overreaction from @hor1997 , but will argue my point in more detail... I fail to see what MT has done wrong here - either in the investors eyes, or the FCA rules; I have seen many platforms reps respond to questions with an actual answer and this has been commended which should have been more widely distributed. In this [MTAI576] case, there has been criticism because the response from the platform rep is to advise that an update is pending on the platform, which is hardly communicating unfairly as the information is useless and open to all to see. I further fail to understand the purpose of a platform rep if they can't answer questions in such a way, especially when that response directs everyone towards the official response on the platform (as opposed to providing a response only to the forum). I agree that all key information should be available to all members and that information should be available at the same time; in the case of advising of an upcoming update, I see no issues. The funny thing here is if Ed provided the update only on this forum it would have been commended by Indie members, but the FCA would probably see that as bad practice. Even then, what with this forum being public and MT openly directing investors to this site, I still see no issues. JMO I am honoured to have attracted the attention of the great C_D I personally do not think MT have done anything "wrong" here either, but that is with hindsight given the nature of the update that was provided. However, morality and financial regulation do not always coincide, and I would advise Ed to cover his backside much more carefully. His own compliance officer will be saying the same thing to him tomorrow. The scenario whereby this gets awkward is as follows: 1. Only those viewing this forum were aware that an unscheduled update would be published later today. 2. The content of the forthcoming update was not disclosed, but it is reasonably foreseeable that it would prompt speculation amongst lenders. 3. Loans have assymetric returns - if the update is to notify lenders of a default then they face the loss of capital and accrued interest, any other news is merely another day's accrued (assuming you can re-invest elsewhere) 4. Some lenders will react to this skewed risk/reward distribution by choosing to sell their loan parts. They may duck a default, and the alternative is probably early repayment in which case they lose future interest anyway? 5. An individual who is logged in to MT (but not this forum) may purchase a loan part before the update is published, unaware of the pending update 6. The seller has more information than the buyer - only the seller knows an update is pending, and the buyer might not have purchased the loan part if he had been equally aware. This could be called a false market if you were feeling critical, and the purchaser may feel he was not treated equally. If the update turned out to be a default he would feel rather aggrieved? The assymetry of returns on debt at par is what makes this different - if the investment in question was an equity (or distressed debt below par) then you have equal potential for price appreciation or a fall in price after the pending announcement (e.g.takeover vs profit warning) which removes the incentive to sell first and ask questions later. Ultimately this overlaps with that even more controversial topic - the merits of secondary loan markets where you can only trade at par.....
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fogey
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Post by fogey on Aug 30, 2017 1:52:44 GMT
This thread is becoming even more surreal than the truly amazing and meandering Paisley ...
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad on Aug 30, 2017 2:17:37 GMT
Either way looking at the SM it tells me there are people investing who shouldn't, a mere sniff of trouble and they are looking to get out, they are clearly not understanding the risk of what they are doing.
I feel that I do know what I'm doing and understand the risks; when uncertainty is generated that I am uncomfortable with, I will sell out.
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bababill
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Post by bababill on Aug 30, 2017 2:19:42 GMT
Sorry but I have to step in here. I am not going to comment on Hor1997 discussion because I don't want to detract from what I am going to say.
I sold very large amounts of this loan yesterday. My 'friends' on this forum via PM know I have been unwinding my stupidly large position on some loans recently. This happened on this loan coincidently right before Ed's announcement.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Aug 30, 2017 2:25:33 GMT
As with bababill, GBBO is way passed my bedtime so only just catching up. I have to say quite the happenings over the last couple of months - another buyer (July?), more delayed PP after that, advanved refi etc. Makes me appreciate the efforts of Lendy Support 's bi-weekly loan book update. Next stop Plymouth - international orientation starts at the uni in 12 days.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Aug 30, 2017 5:33:16 GMT
Hi MoneyThing, we've seen a few late stage refi's fall through across platforms, what would be likeliest plan D if this happened, hope the sale went through this time? Also, now this loan is being serviced by the borrower will you be notifying investors of significant delays in our interest payments ahead of any (unlikely) default. Many thanks.
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Post by peerlessperil on Aug 30, 2017 7:06:04 GMT
For those who weren't woken by their kids hours ago - I think there are three key takeaways from our discussions on this thread: - Platforms need to ensure that lenders using their secondary market are aware of any information they post to this forum which may influence a decision to buy or sell (which sadly may lead to more careful participation here by platform reps). FCA conduct of business principles are the key driver, as loan markets often fall outside market abuse (e.g. insider dealing) regs.
- Secondary markets that trade only at par cause problems because the price can't adjust to reflect new information or shift to rebalance supply and demand. In traded bond markets you might see a corporate bond dip in price if the market became aware of a pending update for later in the day, thus warning potential buyers that they had missed something. Advance notice of an unscheduled update could be considered price sensitive for a bond trading close to par.
- Loans are not regulated like listed securities
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archie
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Post by archie on Aug 30, 2017 7:37:03 GMT
I fail to see how every situation can be used to try and get variable pricing on the sm despite a clear majority not wanting it.
The fact that everything sells at par means any information isn't price sensitive.
I am aware that a few lenders communicate with each other by pm to share information they might have discovered (not me).
In these situations you may have a small group of people all buying or selling something. This doesn't mean they have insider knowledge, just their dd.
If the information was going to be negative, the sm would have been paused to allow lenders to read the update.
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robski
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Post by robski on Aug 30, 2017 8:03:36 GMT
I fail to see how every situation can be used to try and get variable pricing on the sm despite a clear majority not wanting it. The fact that everything sells at par means any information isn't price sensitive. I am aware that a few lenders communicate with each other by pm to share information they might have discovered (not me). In these situations you may have a small group of people all buying or selling something. This doesn't mean they have insider knowledge, just their dd. If the information was going to be negative, the sm would have been paused to allow lenders to read the update. Or, I fail to see how every situation can be used to try and get real time repayment information, despite it probably triggering exactly the same blind panic that some clearly demonstrated today because an update was to be posted I can't see that MT did anything wrong. There were so many scenarios on what the update could have been.
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dovap
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Post by dovap on Aug 30, 2017 9:07:27 GMT
some of the pro investors seem to over egg the 'panic' aspect of selling in advance of an 'update' incoming. bank management is important in most forms of gambling innit (leaving aside the ridiculous outbursts)
hopefully the twists and turns in the plans for this borrower are now on the straight and refinance goes smoothly
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hendragon
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Post by hendragon on Aug 30, 2017 9:31:36 GMT
is it me or is there a reverse of "buy on rumour sell on fact" going on here?
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Aug 30, 2017 9:56:59 GMT
Is it the reverse though?
Given that an announcement regarding a P2P loan is most unlikely to herald an upside, surely selling on the rumour (of a downside) is similar to buying a stock on the rumour of a potential upside.
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