bg
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Post by bg on Nov 1, 2018 17:57:21 GMT
"than what" - you what! I though Ernie Wise had sadly departed. interesting but believe me all local investors will know this one is a lemon and its history - if I were not so busy I might be tempted to make an offer myself although it would be nowhere near £1.56m more like £400K! I would appreciate a second opinion from somebody local but for a flat next to the emergency services with no garage a unit price of over £200K strikes me as a total joke especially as I imagine most investors are waiting for Brexit which may be a wonderful opportunity if there is a short-term crash or even property freeze. In the last ,yet again withdrawn, auction this one was valued at over £1m which is 2/3 of the latest valuation - must have fitted some classy final finishings... FS - please get shot of this lemon as soon as possible so I can hopefully have 50% of my first charge loan back! Whilst I share your frustration Adrian, given that we now have visibility of the valuation to back it up, I'd personally rather let the chance of successful re-financing be taken before having to lose a portion of my capital. As we've seen in the recent past, successful refinancing isn't always a fanciful unicorn, dreams really can come true! I think what some people fail to grasp that a refinance is not a sale of the asset. I'm sure if another lender decides to lend against the valuation report and investors get all their money back there will be few complaints.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Nov 1, 2018 20:01:45 GMT
Whilst I share your frustration Adrian, given that we now have visibility of the valuation to back it up, I'd personally rather let the chance of successful re-financing be taken before having to lose a portion of my capital. As we've seen in the recent past, successful refinancing isn't always a fanciful unicorn, dreams really can come true! I think what some people fail to grasp that a refinance is not a sale of the asset. I'm sure if another lender decides to lend against the valuation report and investors get all their money back there will be few complaints. There should really not be any complaints If seasoned investors who are aware of the vagaries of P2P get their dosh back. My ethos is the same as a professional gambler. No 1 do not loose money. No. 2 make money I am happy if the outcome of a loan part meets either.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Nov 2, 2018 9:28:53 GMT
Agree with above posts but I may have misread the FS updates - to me it is not definite that there is a serious buyer. Surely not a piece of "spin" trying to hide the fact this one is going exactly nowhere! We have been told this before and even if this latest chap is serious then who in their right mind would offer the full valuation given the history of this one. If I had £1.5m to invest in the Liverpool rental market I am sure I could buy a lot more than 7 flats which would give me a vastly greater return - as I said before over £200K per unit next to the emergency services strikes me as way over the top...I think the fact this one has not sold now for months speaks for itself - why on earth did I invest in it! Brexit is coming up so I guess that will .at least, depress the market in the short term.
This borrower is sure clocking up some interest - by the time this one is finally done and dusted I think we will have had over £800K at 20% for over 2 years = £320K in interest alone plus the security, rates etc etc
Gordon Bennett - wonder why I want FS to get shot of this one?
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Nov 21, 2018 10:24:20 GMT
Chat:
It is now 8 weeks since the last update on this loan which is now 15 months overdue. Please can you post an update that provides a timetable for recovery of this loan?
I will request for an update to be posted by the person in charge of this loan as soon as possible, apologies for the delay on the update
Not holding my breath.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Nov 21, 2018 11:07:58 GMT
I very helpful - I don't think!
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mjc
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Post by mjc on Nov 21, 2018 13:16:55 GMT
If the news is so bad even FS can’t put a positive spin on it, it won’t get posted.
Remember FS are on commission.
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Nov 21, 2018 13:24:02 GMT
With FS, no news is never good news.
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arby
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Post by arby on Nov 21, 2018 13:40:03 GMT
And good news is regularly fake news. Until I get the 'loan repaid' email I contain all excitement....
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goofy115
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Post by goofy115 on Nov 22, 2018 15:06:10 GMT
Here we go again......
’We were disappointed to learn that the proposed lender will not accept the valuation report that was previously undertaken. A valuation from a different firm is therefore currently being organised. Nonetheless we have seen the offer from the proposed lender which is subject to valuation. Based on the proposed figures and assuming completion before the end of the year, there should be sufficient to repay capital and interest of all facilities.’
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Nov 22, 2018 15:51:35 GMT
Here we go again...... ’We were disappointed to learn that the proposed lender will not accept the valuation report that was previously undertaken. A valuation from a different firm is therefore currently being organised. Nonetheless we have seen the offer from the proposed lender which is subject to valuation. Based on the proposed figures and assuming completion before the end of the year, there should be sufficient to repay capital and interest of all facilities.’ Based upon previous updates, presumably the proposed lender found the VR too low. Too much of a bargain to be true. They just couldn't believe that a property could be offered at such a discount. In fact, the VR was so surprisingly low that a key executive at the proposed lender must have fainted upon reading it, hitting their head on their brushed marble desk causing them unfortunately to go into a prolonged coma. For two and a half months. Only upon waking must they have got straight in touch with FS to demand a second opinion, necessitated by their own moral conviction about doing the right thing by the borrower and us investors. Hence the long delay. This is the only scenario I can conceive of which would explain how the current expectation is that we are to be paid all of our capital and interest back in the next month and why it has taken two and a half months to reach this point.
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reinvestor
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Post by reinvestor on Nov 22, 2018 16:22:39 GMT
Here we go again...... ’We were disappointed to learn that the proposed lender will not accept the valuation report that was previously undertaken. A valuation from a different firm is therefore currently being organised. Nonetheless we have seen the offer from the proposed lender which is subject to valuation. Based on the proposed figures and assuming completion before the end of the year, there should be sufficient to repay capital and interest of all facilities.’ How can they be surprised at this?? No lender will accept a valuation except one where they have instructed the valuer. How can they as there would be no privity of contract and therefore no recourse to the valuer in the event of something being missed.
This is BASIC finance knowledge and they are "looking after" millions of pounds!!!
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Nov 22, 2018 18:43:41 GMT
Is this a wind-up? Of course they wouldn't! Either this is crass incompetence and a total lack of how the property world operates or there is something very badly wrong here and FS are trying to obfuscate the truth with spin nonsense.
This just does not sense to me - I am puzzled but trying to work out may be happening Only thing I can think of is that FS/the developer don't want to default this one as it is supporting other loans and defaulting will bring them all down - that is my guess and I stress "guess" I also note the original 2 directors seem to have resigned and a compulsory strike off was commenced but has now been suspended.
All this nonsense about the valuation strikes me as a complete red herring and/or a means of playing for time - how many damn valuations does this development need!
The value of any property is only what somebody is prepared to pay for it - looks to me as if there are no serious buyers for anywhere near this mystical 1.3-1.5m valuation
I would politely say to FS - please stop treating us as idiots with these disingenuous updates, tell us what is actually going on here and put this damn property back into auction (with a reserve of £0.4m) for the third time . I will now do a poll so we can show our feelings.
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p2ploser
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Post by p2ploser on Nov 22, 2018 19:03:05 GMT
Are fundingsecure trying to demonstrate how continually incompetent they are for some reason in managing loans? This valuation was instructed in late June, went through several months of nonsense reasons about delays to the report being issued only to announce over 4 months later that they just discovered the valuation was no good for the purpose it was initiated.
The irony is that fs offer 6 month loans. I wonder how many of their property loans complete under 12 months.
Are fs actually managing loans or just letting them run and hoping for the best?
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Dec 17, 2018 15:05:14 GMT
According to the update on 15-May-18 (2060253521) the total debt was £1,244k accruing at a daily rate of £409 so now the sum outstanding must be about £1,332k.
If it wasn't obvious some time ago, the total interest due on the 1st facility loans now virtually guarantees no return of capital (or interest) for the 2nd and 3rd facilities and the only questions remaining are if 1st facility holders will receive all of their capital back and when.
Something like this:
Reference Title Amount Interest Total 1586956834 Development Project, Formby - Renewal £342,000 9722235354 Development Project, Formby 2nd tranche - Renewal £150,000 8063562495 Development Project, Formby 3rd tranche - Renewal £185,000 2741574255 Development Project, Formby 4th tranche £138,000 £815,000 £197,929 £1,012,929
2092027969 Formby development - 2nd facility 1st tranche £100,000 7805271776 Formby development - 2nd facility 2nd tranche £80,000
2060253521 Formby development - 3rd loan £77,000
Total £1,072,000
I suppose that FS may feel that bad news tomorrow is better than bad news today but they really have let this one drift and it is no encouragement to trust in their loan management or invest further.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 17, 2018 16:25:04 GMT
I couldn't remember why I skipped this series of loans, but I am surprised to see someone invested 50k in 8063562495 for the 185k tranche.
I didn't like the VR when I first saw it.
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