david42
Member of DD Central
Posts: 419
Likes: 346
|
Post by david42 on Oct 28, 2017 14:27:39 GMT
Hi david42 ; But statistically it doesn't look promising: No loan had repaid when more than 48 days late, and average of overdue loans in your latest summary is 52, suggesting at least half will default (I realise your 52 is probably the mean rather than median average which I have implied). That would result in ~10% defaults, which appears to come close to wiping out the surplus. So much for conjecture, another 2 months on it would be interesting to know how are things actually going? I agree it does not look promising. An overall loss looks like the most likely outcome. Several defaults since my last update. My statistics after 11 months are now: 41 loans repaid early, average (mean) 39 days early. 25 loans repaid within 2 days of the correct time. 28 loans repaid late. Average (mean) 16 days late. Maximum 48 days late 23 loans overdue. Average (mean) 59 days overdue. Maximum 126 days overdue. 16 loans are more than 48 days late. 8 loans have defaulted. Three of these loans have entered a repayment plan - so maybe I will get something back. Conclusions The 8 defaults to date have wiped out 2/3 of the interest received to date making an overall loss look more likely. The Money Platform's original estimate that 7% of loans would default was overly optimistic in my case. Maybe that is why they are not publishing their performance figures. After 11 months of using the platform the performance will still be determined by the eventual outcome of the overdue loans. The value of the 16 loans that are more than 48 days late exceeds the total of the interest payments received to date.
|
|
romy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 78
Likes: 41
|
Post by romy on Nov 12, 2017 17:10:18 GMT
For what it's worth my stats don't look great!
9 loans over 6 months
6 paid back early Average approx.11 days
3 late average 42 days ( range 10 to 76)
Definitely looking out of pocket - any of the 3 overdue ones not repaying would wipe out all interest received.
|
|
david42
Member of DD Central
Posts: 419
Likes: 346
|
Post by david42 on Dec 19, 2017 15:47:23 GMT
My statistics after 13 months: 112 loans have repaid with interest 27 loans are more than 2 months late or defaulted
In spite of the high interest on the successful loans I am probably looking at a net loss of around 15% of my investment on this platform.
|
|
hendragon
Member of DD Central
Posts: 631
Likes: 619
|
Post by hendragon on Dec 20, 2017 9:43:22 GMT
It seems in my case I have been somewhat fortunate. I have had 12 loans,11 of which have repaid. The only outstanding loan is on the new terms, and installments that were due to be in October and November have not been made. The entire loan is now overdue in terms of the final payment. If there a zero reocovery on this loan (hopefully not) I will still be in a modest profit of about 3%. It occurs to me that if I had been less fortunate I might also be in a loss making position. Making a profit early on in the process allowed me to reinvest the profits and withdraw any original capital.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,677
Likes: 2,974
|
Post by michaelc on Dec 20, 2017 21:39:19 GMT
Well I would say 139 loans is more statistically significant than 12.
15% loss is grim. You'd be about 12% better off gambling it all on the roulette wheel.
I'm still watching and waiting.
|
|
hendragon
Member of DD Central
Posts: 631
Likes: 619
|
Post by hendragon on Dec 21, 2017 9:44:49 GMT
I agree with you michaelc. A few of us are trying to piece together some idea of how TMP is performing. The best solution is some hard data from TMP. If you are monitoring this board perhaps a representative of TMP could give us an indication when or if this information might be available.
|
|
|
Post by george on Dec 26, 2017 14:03:10 GMT
Here's my (very small) set of data, for what it's worth.
Joined TMP in June 2017, dipping a toe in the water with £1,000, offered exclusively in the £250 markets.
So far:
Old Style Loans ============
1 repaid on time (was only a 4 week loan - all the others were 12 week). 1 repaid in full 34 days late. 2 currently overdue (85 and 76 days respectively)
New Style Loans ============
1 repaid in full 11 days early (having missed both the interim payments) 1 currently overdue by 7 days on the final payment, both interim payments have been missed.
So overall, I've received £147.73 of interest with £500 of capital looking like it's almost certainly lost, and another £250 of capital at risk.
Obviously, my data alone is not enough to be statistically significant, but combined with the less than promising reports from others here with "larger toes", I won't be lending any more with TMP until there's a *lot* more transparency about the state of the loan book.
|
|
panda
Posts: 56
Likes: 23
|
Post by panda on Jan 7, 2018 8:46:43 GMT
I have three defaults which pretty much wipe out the interest to date. Plus another three late, which I expect to default. I haven't had any loans recover from being late so far. Not looking good.
|
|
panda
Posts: 56
Likes: 23
|
Post by panda on Jan 7, 2018 12:31:24 GMT
Rates are now fixed so the only choice is what markets you lend in. I have had no information volunteered on my late or defaulted loans and no late/defaulted loans recovered, although others have.
There is now a statistics page for the TMP loan book, but that doesn't cover the first incarnation of TMP, and loans since the major changes are not old enough to show defaults yet, so not very helpful.
I have had a couple of messages I sent go unanswered, not sure if the 'Contact Us' messages still work, I didn't bother to chase them. And no involvement on the forum recently from TMP, WestonKev has been very quiet.
I was hoping lates/defaults would be better in the new TMP (with WestonKev), but not sure that is going to be the case now. My experiment has a bit longer to run, so giving it another chance, but many more lates and I'll have to give it up.
You would think they would be incentivised to chase lates as they get 50% of the interest, but maybe the main income is the upfront fees.
|
|
kevinkelly
Member of DD Central
Posts: 97
Likes: 37
|
Post by kevinkelly on Jan 8, 2018 16:04:56 GMT
I am holding a number of late/default loans at the moment, and am very concerned at the apparent apathy being displayed by the platform. I've not heard ANYTHING from them regarding late/default loans.
Very worrying indeed.
|
|
|
Post by WestonKevTMP on Jan 9, 2018 12:05:38 GMT
WestonKev has been very quiet. You would think they would be incentivised to chase lates as they get 50% of the interest, but maybe the main income is the upfront fees. Hi, it's true I'm not as active on the forums as I used to be. Ideally I'd be tagged @ then I'll certainly respond given time. There are no upfront fees. TMP only get paid if the loan is repaid, so we are in the same position as lenders. In terms of Collections there has been more focus recently here, both by employing in-house collections/chasing, and then a professional external agency who only get paid as a percentage of monies collected. As a new platform in the short term lending space the acceptance strategy is constantly changing. Not only using different data points but getting the cut-off between approval rates and bad debt in the right space. If we decline too many then lenders don't get funds deployed and the costs attached to all applications can make the CPA on written loans prohibitively high. It's a balancing act. What we are seeing is that as we build a portfolio of customers, they repeat borrow with a high frequency, and they have better lower bad debt accordingly as trusted borrowers. Not wanting to gloss over any bad debt suffered by lenders (myself included), the first 6-12 months are always the hardest. Not so much getting the credit policy right, but all new platforms attract higher risk borrowers as the new player in town. It takes time to weed out these initial bad guys, and focus on better sources of loan and existing borrowers. Kevin.
|
|
|
Post by WestonKevTMP on Jan 9, 2018 19:18:17 GMT
I've been following TMP's threads since they appeared on the scene; this thread is particularly concerning in that I'm beginning to conclude that All the 'aces' are in the hands of the platform itself whether initially you were able to set your own lending rate or as now live with the fixed... ...what are your thoughts? All the best, J. You could "set your own rate", but it's important to understand why this was removed. I'm an advocate of customer choice, but really there wasn't a choice and the allusion caused problems. This is defined as High Cost Short Term Credit, so the maximum daily rate is 0.8%. TMP shares this with lenders so the lender rate is 0.4%. With the recent regulatory cap, we are not allowed to let lenders go above 0.4%. and in actual fact virtually all loans were written at this lowest rate anyway, money above 0.4% rarely got deployed. So letting lenders choose a higher rate just caused delays, frustration and questions. Arguably we could let lenders go below 0.4%. But this would require some IT work to have variable APR loans on the platform, and make sure we advertised correct representative APRs. Also lenders might not realise the risks, and offering too low a rate, would cause other financial issues for them. In the HCSTC market, a slightly lower daily rate and APR doesn't reduce bad debt as it does in the prime market. Hopefully the TMP product range will expand to cover different APR and risk quality (and loan length and value). But this will take time and investment. This is a very different sector to the one the traditional P2P platforms operate, where having the lowest APR on the comparison sites (and associated" eligibility") can make or break a business. That said, a personal goal would be to lower pricing to borrowers. This might one day attract better quality borrowers and generally be a good thing for the HCSTC market. Help put some of the incumbent morally dubious organisations under pressure. But this is a personal goal. Kevin.
|
|
markr
Member of DD Central
Posts: 766
Likes: 426
|
Post by markr on Jan 10, 2018 13:48:24 GMT
My penny falls experiment (no new deposits, no withdrawals) is still ongoing. Over half my initial capital amount is now in defaulted or seriously late loans, but the rest is performing ok. Assuming no recoveries or further losses, I'm a little bit ahead at the moment, before tax.
|
|
|
Post by WestonKevTMP on Jan 16, 2018 17:51:46 GMT
My penny falls experiment (no new deposits, no withdrawals) is still ongoing. Over half my initial capital amount is now in defaulted or seriously late loans, but the rest is performing ok. Assuming no recoveries or further losses, I'm a little bit ahead at the moment, before tax. This is good. One of the reasons the platform is at the higher risk end of the P2P spectrum is that loans are not fractionalised and we have there is no provision fund. We are the " roller coaster of the P2P world"..... As a result lender returns will vary dramatically, with some enjoying fantastic returns and others doing disappointingly badly (and those with bad experiences tend to be more vociferous). Everyone is somewhere different on that bell curve, and that's not ideal. That said, I'm very expectant the overall default performance will improve even further from where we are today. For the following reasons; 1) Credit acceptance is evolving constantly to be based on our experience and own loan performance data, rather than a default model for the HCSTC market as a whole 2) Loans are now amortising over 8 and 12 weeks, rather than expecting customers to make single large capital and interest payments in one go. This also increases liquidity for lenders with payments, and if there is a default it'll be for a smaller amount 3) A TMP specific data scorecard is now in place, working in conjunction with the bureaux scores. 4) Loan values have been skewed towards lower £250 for new and higher risk customers. Making payments more affordable. 5) Borrower portfolio is increasing, and repeating business with us. This rapidly growing segment has improved acceptance, lower capture costs and lower bad debt. Launch is always hard at the start with no existing portfolio of borrowers, no data (relying on "expert" decisions) and as the new lender in town a magnet for dodgier borrowers. We are very grateful for our early adopters and it's great to know people are making a return, but onwards and upwards from here is encouraging. Longer term we want to embrace Open Banking, and think about how a pool or fractionalisation product could work. But these are longer term projects and will take money and IT resource before implementation. Kevin.
|
|
p2pmark
Member of DD Central
Posts: 218
Likes: 187
|
Post by p2pmark on Jan 17, 2018 18:58:19 GMT
My penny falls experiment (no new deposits, no withdrawals) is still ongoing. Over half my initial capital amount is now in defaulted or seriously late loans, but the rest is performing ok. Assuming no recoveries or further losses, I'm a little bit ahead at the moment, before tax. ... As a result lender returns will vary dramatically, with some enjoying fantastic returns and others doing disappointingly badly (and those with bad experiences tend to be more vociferous). Everyone is somewhere different on that bell curve, and that's not ideal. ... So can you please provide the statistics relating to all loans so far, WestonKevTMP. (I recognise that you think performance will improve from this position.)
|
|