nsinvestor
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Post by nsinvestor on Jan 3, 2017 16:50:57 GMT
stevefindlay have you published / will you publish the list of approved platforms you invest through? One concern for the P2P investor community is platform risk and the perception that BM may be doubling up platform risk if the investor is already exposed directly to the underlying platforms. Your proposition is interesting and transparency re the above would provide another level of comfort to those working through their understanding of receivables agreements ..
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Post by stevefindlay on Jan 3, 2017 17:18:26 GMT
nsinvestor - this is a fair question. However we don't disclose the specific platforms we invest through for the following reasons: 1. Protect IP: we spend a significant amount of time meeting and reviewing platforms (and other speciality lenders - see below) every year, we are not keen to share the outcome of this analysis publicly. But all of our clients benefit from this effort. 2. We reserve the right to change our minds: we may alter the proportion we use a platform, and may reduce to zero (or increase) depending on the quality of the loans we are reviewing. We want to retain flexibility and remain discrete when doing so. 3. We don't want to be responsible for the performance of all loans from an approved platform: we typically approve 1 in 3 loans from approved platforms. We don't want clients to assume that all loans from an approved platform are also approved. 4. Exclusive relationships: we are working exclusively with some loan providers, and we do not want to disclose these relationships publicly. Having said this, if a client is concerned about their level of platform-specific concentration, they are welcome to call us for a discussion and we can hopefully provide them with the information they may need with respect to an individual platform.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jan 3, 2017 20:16:11 GMT
nsinvestor - this is a fair question. However we don't disclose the specific platforms we invest through for the following reasons: 1. Protect IP: we spend a significant amount of time meeting and reviewing platforms (and other speciality lenders - see below) every year, we are not keen to share the outcome of this analysis publicly. But all of our clients benefit from this effort. 2. We reserve the right to change our minds: we may alter the proportion we use a platform, and may reduce to zero (or increase) depending on the quality of the loans we are reviewing. We want to retain flexibility and remain discrete when doing so. 3. We don't want to be responsible for the performance of all loans from an approved platform: we typically approve 1 in 3 loans from approved platforms. We don't want clients to assume that all loans from an approved platform are also approved. 4. Exclusive relationships: we are working exclusively with some loan providers, and we do not want to disclose these relationships publicly. Having said this, if a client is concerned about their level of platform-specific concentration, they are welcome to call us for a discussion and we can hopefully provide them with the information they may need with respect to an individual platform. There's no way they would do this! There USP is they have (allegedly) done DD on all platforms and picked the best - to say which they are would A) require them to prove they have actually done this - alot more work than just making a claim you have B) naturally lead to questioning and the need to justify the choice - at the moment a simple claim they pick the best suits everyone, specifying which platforms means some won't be happy and less custom C) would define the risk profile, again currently "unknown" fits everyone, defined risk levels would deter a proportion of people If you want a say in where YOUR money is invested and be fully aware of the risks involved that they are taking with YOUR money, then this company is NOT for you
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fp
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Post by fp on Jan 3, 2017 20:48:51 GMT
nsinvestor - this is a fair question. However we don't disclose the specific platforms we invest through for the following reasons: There's no way they would do this! There USP is they have (allegedly) done DD on all platforms and picked the best - to say which they are would A) require them to prove they have actually done this - alot more work than just making a claim you have B) naturally lead to questioning and the need to justify the choice - at the moment a simple claim they pick the best suits everyone, specifying which platforms means some won't be happy and less custom C) would define the risk profile, again currently "unknown" fits everyone, defined risk levels would deter a proportion of people If you want a say in where YOUR money is invested and be fully aware of the risks involved that they are taking with YOUR money, then this company is NOT for you Judging by the tone of your reply, you seem to know something we, or at least I don't, care to elaborate?
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jan 3, 2017 21:10:58 GMT
There's no way they would do this! There USP is they have (allegedly) done DD on all platforms and picked the best - to say which they are would A) require them to prove they have actually done this - alot more work than just making a claim you have B) naturally lead to questioning and the need to justify the choice - at the moment a simple claim they pick the best suits everyone, specifying which platforms means some won't be happy and less custom C) would define the risk profile, again currently "unknown" fits everyone, defined risk levels would deter a proportion of people If you want a say in where YOUR money is invested and be fully aware of the risks involved that they are taking with YOUR money, then this company is NOT for you Judging by the tone of your reply, you seem to know something we, or at least I don't, care to elaborate? No, just an observation that it's not in their interest to disclose this information or disclose the real reason why they won't disclose this information. Mixed with a 'tone' due to a dislike of companies making a profit from platforms success and hard work, by not doing an awful lot. I see them similiar to the banks that repackaged sub prime loans and sold them on for more than their worth. In a downturn, I can't see them lowering their fees to compensate for losses, so costs will compound the total losses
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fp
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Post by fp on Jan 3, 2017 21:34:21 GMT
Judging by the tone of your reply, you seem to know something we, or at least I don't, care to elaborate? No, just an observation that it's not in their interest to disclose this information or disclose the real reason why they won't disclose this information. Mixed with a 'tone' due to a dislike of companies making a profit from platforms success and hard work, by not doing an awful lot. I see them similiar to the banks that repackaged sub prime loans and sold them on for more than their worth. In a downturn, I can't see them lowering their fees to compensate for losses, so costs will compound the total losses I think your comments could/will be easily misinterpreted. I spend a lot of time doing DD, so for someone who doesn't have the time, it IS "a lot" that they do for the 1% fee they charge, and if we're referring to sub prime loans, then Faltering Credit would be a prime example IMO, try giving them a few grand to auto invest for you and see if you go more than a month without a loan going south.
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Post by stevefindlay on Jan 3, 2017 22:28:52 GMT
stevio - thank you for taking the time to visit our board and comment. You may like to see our statistics page (www.bondmason.com/statistics) - which we are also updating this week - which will give you a flavour of the amount of activity we undertake, and quality of performance (judge us by our results if you are concerned / confused by our efforts). As for this comment: I assume you are either having a bad day, or know very little about what we do and/or what the rapacious investment banks did in ripping off their client base during the 2008 financial crisis. Otherwise you wouldn't have made such a baseless, and frankly offensive comment.
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archie
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Post by archie on Jan 4, 2017 7:03:26 GMT
Suggestion :
What if each investor could specify a platform they would rather avoid, presumably because they already invest heavily there themselves?
The menu selection could give a choice of all the popular platforms without giving away whether BondMason are actually investing there at the moment.
I'm not sure if that would cause any problems with the allocation algorithms.
Disclaimer : I haven't invested here but like the service they are offering.
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Post by khampson on Jan 4, 2017 7:29:29 GMT
I am just leaving it up to BM, to invest my funds, this is the attraction for me, deposit and forget. I place my trust in the platform and so far in 7 months no late payments. I am sure if I had gone in alone then it's unlikely I would have 100% repayment record.
It's clear to see that BM don't invest recklessly and they rather have cash in accounts than just invest in all loans, that tells me they have high levels of criteria before investing and not a greedy platform just wanting to generate revenue from investors.
The could tell you what platforms they invest in but people would just go straight to the platform directly even though BM do not invest in every loan.
I would love the option just to select BM to invest in the 12%+ platforms but the bonus of BM is spread the risk and trying to pick the most attractive loans out of these platforms, so far this has been achieved in my opinion.
I understand to some that the transparency my give people some concerns as yes it's your money, and BM is basically a p2p fund manager, however I like it here, I like the communication and the door is always open attitude, it's not for everyone but for me it is.
Hopefully we will have other opportunities that do not involve a p2p platform and BM will deal more directly with these opportunities.
I am comfortable that every loan invested in through BM has been effectively looked at twice with 2 sets of eyes.
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Post by stevefindlay on Jan 4, 2017 7:37:33 GMT
... rapacious investment banks did in ripping of their client base during the 2008 financial crisis. Otherwise you wouldn't have made such a baseless, and frankly offensive comment. Sorry but to imply that all investment banks were "ripping off their client base" is also completely baseless and frankly equally offensive to those investment banks (and their employees) that stood back from sub-prime lending throughout the 2000s, often under severe criticism from their shareholders, and were profitable during 2008. You state that you have a background in VC and private equity but I doubt you would particularly like to be put in the same category as many of the frauds, rip-offs and ponzi schemes that have existed in that sector. Note: I am not an investment bank employee - you are correct. Many banks and even more employees were completely blameless during the 2008 financial crisis and I don't mean them any disrespect.
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Post by stevefindlay on Jan 4, 2017 7:39:19 GMT
Suggestion : What if each investor could specify a platform they would rather avoid, presumably because they already invest heavily there themselves? The menu selection could give a choice of all the popular platforms without giving away whether BondMason are actually investing there at the moment. I'm not sure if that would cause any problems with the allocation algorithms. Disclaimer : I haven't invested here but like the service they are offering. - Clients are very welcome to contact us to disucss any concerns they may have over individual platform concentration. We have had this discussion a few times. In addition, we don't allocate more than 25% to a single platform, and it is often much less than this (see revised statistics page by the end of the week).
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stub8535
Member of DD Central
personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Jan 4, 2017 8:16:26 GMT
Having had the same concern early in my days with BM I called Steve and had a long conversation in which he was very frank in where they do, and don't, if pressed, look for opportunities. At the end of the call I was satisfied that my concerns had been addressed.
I agree with the previous comments that if you are not happy with the lack of transparency of the website and cannot get comfortable if you make the call then don't invest here. I would extend that comment to the people who missed the comments on the platforms investment drag on the sites explanation page to do the same.
This site does exactly what it says on the tin. Place your money and let them do the job that you need them to do and free yourself to go and do other things.
Its your choice as there are plenty of other opportunities out there just for you, and more coming all the time.
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Post by sayyestocress on Jan 4, 2017 16:44:46 GMT
You can see a handful of the approved platforms by looking at their 'spotlight on' articles on their website, though obviously this won't represent the complete list but it's probably the best you're gonna get.
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Post by stevefindlay on Jan 4, 2017 18:19:54 GMT
For those interested in platform selection from a concentration perspective, we've updated our statistics page which now includes this analysis. We cap our individual platform concentration at 25%, and the chart below shows the deployment trends over 2016:  |
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jan 4, 2017 18:29:32 GMT
Choppy seas ahead
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