bloodycat
Member of DD Central
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Post by bloodycat on Jan 10, 2017 15:25:27 GMT
Valuation reports on their own are always of limited value.
Surveyors always cover themselves by stating assumptions made and putting in all sorts of caveats as to what they have actually bothered checking (usually only what they can see without a ladder or moving anything).
Whether or not those assumptions are correct is then down to the client to verify via their legal team and /or by having additional checks / inspections carried out for those potential issues they think may be relevant. Often surveyors will mention things which clearly are not a problem, unfortunately this then tends to encourage people to overlook other items which may be more significant as all these extra checks cost money.
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oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
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Post by oldgrumpy on Jan 10, 2017 15:41:13 GMT
Does anyone else have a sneaking suspicion that this wont be going live today? PS. All you DD diggers on here are fantastic. SS you pay you! We have to do it. SS tells us to. (see T&C 2.5 and 2.7) "A lender must form its own opinion regarding the security offered against a loan to a borrower and undertake its own research, analysis and assessment of the valuation for each loan and, where appropriate, seek their own independent financial advice." (because)"While Saving Stream believes that the security documents might provide additional comfort as to the likelihood of repayment ... .... Saving Stream accepts no responsibility and disclaims all liability for any information about a borrower made available to prospective lenders t hrough the Saving Stream platform." So, if SS doesn't trust what it says, why the **** should we?
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Post by portlandbill on Jan 10, 2017 15:54:30 GMT
Does anyone else have a sneaking suspicion that this wont be going live today? PS. All you DD diggers on here are fantastic. SS you pay you! I'll second that sentiment!
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
Posts: 2,853
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Post by cooling_dude on Jan 10, 2017 16:03:00 GMT
Does anyone else have a sneaking suspicion that this wont be going live today? PS. All you DD diggers on here are fantastic. SS you pay you! We have to do it. SS tells us to. (see T&C 2.5 and 2.7) "A lender must form its own opinion regarding the security offered against a loan to a borrower and undertake its own research, analysis and assessment of the valuation for each loan and, where appropriate, seek their own independent financial advice." (because)"While Saving Stream believes that the security documents might provide additional comfort as to the likelihood of repayment ... .... Saving Stream accepts no responsibility and disclaims all liability for any information about a borrower made available to prospective lenders t hrough the Saving Stream platform." So, if SS doesn't trust what it says, why the **** should we?Add to this the follow (in the instruction letter to the Surveyor)... 1.7 You should bear in mind that the purpose of your report is to enable us to assess whether the Property is suitable as security for a "non status " loan. Whilst we do undertake some due diligence on the applicant it is not as extensive as a mainstream lender might apply.Definitely important to carry out DD; I really don't think you should be investing via SS with carrying out DD considering the above & OG observation.
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guff
Posts: 730
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Post by guff on Jan 10, 2017 16:04:53 GMT
This might make you young and happy....
h********.ning.com/forum/topics/h******-r*****a
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Post by charliebrown on Jan 10, 2017 16:46:20 GMT
None of this gives me any comfort. Respect to all the guys doing the DD and Detective work! Ive just dropped my prefunding to zero on both loans. I'm out, as they say on Dragons Den. No decent loans coming through on SS recently  |
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 10, 2017 16:51:17 GMT
Back again.
Look, there's a very uncomplicated point here. Caveat Emptor and all that jazz is all very well, but what we need is simply to be able to trust that the LTVs, Valuation Reports, etc, etc are transparent, honest and as accurate as can reasonably be, certainly with basic material facts included.
It's not too much to ask. It is not acceptable to pepper your Ts & Cs and small print with enough "Get Outs" that you can release virtually any old guff to Lenders who then have to do more work.
Most of us don't have the time for endless Due Diligence when a reputable platform should be doing this DD for you and only presenting kosher loans.
Sadly I note a trend among a number of ABP2Ps in manipulating LTVs with Valuation Reports being increasingly vague and lacking any real substance or, worst case, withholding vital information.
For me SS has more than blotted their copy book on this one, it could & should have been presented to us "properly".
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toffeeboy
Member of DD Central
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Post by toffeeboy on Jan 10, 2017 17:01:44 GMT
Back again. Look, there's a very uncomplicated point here. Caveat Emptor and all that jazz is all very well, but what we need is simply to be able to trust that the LTVs, Valuation Reports, etc, etc are transparent, honest and as accurate as can reasonably be, certainly with basic material facts included. It's not too much to ask. It is not acceptable to pepper your Ts & Cs and small print with enough "Get Outs" that you can release virtually any old guff to Lenders who then have to do more work. Most of us don't have the time for endless Due Diligence when a reputable platform should be doing this DD for you and only presenting kosher loans. Sadly I note a trend among a number of ABP2Ps in manipulating LTVs with Valuation Reports being increasingly vague and lacking any real substance or, worst case, withholding vital information. For me SS has more than blotted their copy book on this one, it could & should have been presented to us "properly". SS state that they don't do as much DD as other lenders and that investors are required to do some of their own DD. Now you might see this as them covering themselves but I see it as them telling me what I need to know, I have to do some of my own digging or invariably read CD's and others work that they put on here.
Basically you don't like the service that SS supply so vote with your feet and leave, if you haven't got the time to do DD then SS isn't the site for you then is it, not hard to figure out really. There is another thread on here called "I'm out" where the original poster is accused of scaremongering where I think he was just he was out and explained why you on the other hand are scaremongering in my view. As has been said before if you don't like what has been offered then just don't invest instead of shouting off to everyone about how hard done by you are when it hasn't even affected you at all.
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dovap
Member of DD Central
Posts: 464
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Post by dovap on Jan 10, 2017 17:05:24 GMT
For me SS has more than blotted their copy book on this one, it could & should have been presented to us "properly". Odd you think this one is irregular - this appears very much the norm tbh. No doubt there'll be shills spouting the well for 12% guff - still sure it wing it's way onto the platform and be snapped up all great fun 
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GeorgeT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,312
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Post by GeorgeT on Jan 10, 2017 17:06:10 GMT
Back again. Look, there's a very uncomplicated point here. Caveat Emptor and all that jazz is all very well, but what we need is simply to be able to trust that the LTVs, Valuation Reports, etc, etc are transparent, honest and as accurate as can reasonably be, certainly with basic material facts included. It's not too much to ask. It is not acceptable to pepper your Ts & Cs and small print with enough "Get Outs" that you can release virtually any old guff to Lenders who then have to do more work. Most of us don't have the time for endless Due Diligence when a reputable platform should be doing this DD for you and only presenting kosher loans. Sadly I note a trend among a number of ABP2Ps in manipulating LTVs with Valuation Reports being increasingly vague and lacking any real substance or, worst case, withholding vital information. For me SS has more than blotted their copy book on this one, it could & should have been presented to us "properly". that's all well and good but if you want every I dotted and every T Crossed it is going to take a lot more time and money on the part of the valuers and saving stream and the solicitors and it will all be slowed down and many loans will never happen because this type of lending is all about fast turnover. you can't get that level of security and level of Investigation done except for spending a lot more money and a lot more time. it would make the loan proposals that come to the website a bit safer but in return for that you would not be getting 12% you might only be getting 6% because there would be a lot of additional costs involved and the risk would be lower. the whole business model relies on a basic level of Investigation and enquiry and investors undertaking their own due diligence and only lending money to Borrowers and proposals they are comfortable with. That is stated on the saving stream website. you can't really expect to have it both ways. It's not reasonable to sit at home and do no due diligence and expect to cop 12% interest for very little risk.
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Post by reeknralf on Jan 10, 2017 17:10:27 GMT
I read that " the borrower is an Architect and <removed> development. He has been in the industry for decades and has worked on <removed> planning, architecture and interior design on both domestic and commercial projects. The borrower has spent over £xmil on this project and has enhanced its value considerably, leaving lots of equity in the property."
My further DD reveals this architect is Swedish, but I can find no record whatsoever on Swedish websites or anywhere else about his qualifications and/or previous developments. Before I invest in this flamboyant property, does anyone know whether he has been trading under another name than the MD mentioned in the new valuation document? I would like to see some of his other successfully completed projects over the decades. savingstream claim he worked on <removed> after the fire.
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Post by spareafewcoppersguv on Jan 10, 2017 17:11:30 GMT
What is maybe of most concern is that there has been no response to all the concerns raised by Saving Stream. I can't believe they haven't been following this discussion.....
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
Posts: 2,947
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Post by ozboy on Jan 10, 2017 17:12:09 GMT
I give up, if many of you are prepared to put up with the omission, as standard practice, of very important and basic material facts then so be it, fine.
<redacted>
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registerme
Member of DD Central
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Post by registerme on Jan 10, 2017 17:31:14 GMT
It's possible to disagree with each other and remain polite. There's no reason to snipe at each other, please refrain from doing so.
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MONEY
Posts: 62
Likes: 831
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Post by MONEY on Jan 10, 2017 17:31:30 GMT
... It's not reasonable to sit at home and do no due diligence and expect to cop 12% interest for very little risk. The same could quite easily be said for Saving Stream, for a virtually risk-free slice plus fees, with little or no financial investment once a loan has been subscribed to. Checking whether the appropriate planning permission(s) are in place should be schoolboy stuff for SS, as well as investors. No credit checks on borrowers. Not sourcing any of their own deals. It does make you wonder what that now 17 strong team are doing - the office Tiddlywinks board must be getting threadbare.
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