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Post by spiker on Aug 9, 2017 9:42:38 GMT
I'm not happy. I went for the non-diversified approach and put my money in just a few loans. I don't always believe diversification is the best approach, but with FC it seems I got really unlucky. I put money in 18946 (defaulted), 29514 (defaulted), 21802 (defaulted), 18602 (defaulted), 29700 (late and looks sure to default). The odds of almost every loan I touched defaulting must just make me very unlucky. I'm exiting FC with capital loss of around 6K pounds, it's been a truly terrible experience for me and I will never come back. That's just my experience, but good luck to all the other investors who enjoy great returns on FC, sadly I wasn't one of them. Plenty of far better p2p companies exist. Most of them offer asset-based loans. So at the end of the day instead of a personal guarantee (which is worth nothing with FC) you will have an asset in case of defaults and the asset can be sold... Examples: Collateral (offers 12-14%), MoneyThing (offers 11-13%), Lendy (offers 9-12%) Asset-backed loans are by definition a step forwards and I cannot understand those still staying with FC after all the warning and horror stories told on this forum. It looks really a strange strategy (yes, you can easily get 5-6% on FC with a diversifies strategy, but you can easily get 10-12% elsewhere without any fuss) Rose tinted glasses my friend. The problem with MoneyThing and others is that the throughput of loans is VERY slow, therefore it becomes impossible to diversify, and you end up with high percentages in any one loan. (Unless you are prepared to wait a very long time to get all your capital invested) Your glasses are rose tinted because you are currently earning a nice 12% and MoneyThing hasn't had a default yet, but one will eventually come and with poor diversification it will have a large impact on many investors.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Aug 9, 2017 9:53:18 GMT
Plenty of far better p2p companies exist. Most of them offer asset-based loans. So at the end of the day instead of a personal guarantee (which is worth nothing with FC) you will have an asset in case of defaults and the asset can be sold... Examples: Collateral (offers 12-14%), MoneyThing (offers 11-13%), Lendy (offers 9-12%) Asset-backed loans are by definition a step forwards and I cannot understand those still staying with FC after all the warning and horror stories told on this forum. It looks really a strange strategy (yes, you can easily get 5-6% on FC with a diversifies strategy, but you can easily get 10-12% elsewhere without any fuss) Rose tinted glasses my friend. The problem with MoneyThing and others is that the throughput of loans is VERY slow, therefore it becomes impossible to diversify, and you end up with high percentages in any one loan. (Unless you are prepared to wait a very long time to get all your capital invested) Your glasses are rose tinted because you are currently earning a nice 12% and MoneyThing hasn't had a default yet, but one will eventually come and with poor diversification it will have a large impact on many investors. but you can diversify ACROSS platforms too, so I don't agree it is impossible to diversify effectively on ~12% loans using MT, L, Col, FS etc.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 9, 2017 10:22:46 GMT
Rose tinted glasses my friend. The problem with MoneyThing and others is that the throughput of loans is VERY slow, therefore it becomes impossible to diversify, and you end up with high percentages in any one loan. (Unless you are prepared to wait a very long time to get all your capital invested) Your glasses are rose tinted because you are currently earning a nice 12% and MoneyThing hasn't had a default yet, but one will eventually come and with poor diversification it will have a large impact on many investors. but you can diversify ACROSS platforms too, so I don't agree it is impossible to diversify effectively on ~12% loans using MT, L, Col, FS etc. Etc? Who else offers 12+ secure lending? What is current loss rate on FS and L? FC recovers about 40%, what is their recovery rate? Do you know what loss and recovery rate is going to be on MT? Do you think that doing all lending relying on a property is the right thing ? operating 6 platforms is more time consuming than operating 3, how practical would it be?
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Aug 9, 2017 10:41:36 GMT
but you can diversify ACROSS platforms too, so I don't agree it is impossible to diversify effectively on ~12% loans using MT, L, Col, FS etc. Etc? Who else offers 12+ secure lending? What is current loss rate on FS and L? FC recovers about 40%, what is their recovery rate? Do you know what loss and recovery rate is going to be on MT? Do you think that doing all lending relying on a property is the right thing ? operating 6 platforms is more time consuming than operating 3, how practical would it be? ABLrate, Blend, HNW, BridgeCrowd, Abundance, Landlord Invest, Capital Rise, Huddle (and more etcs), yes, takes time, but it isn't impossible, which was the original assertion. and yes, property heavy, but with time can also get other stuff
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m2btj
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Post by m2btj on Aug 9, 2017 12:32:06 GMT
I invest across a diverse range of six platforms giving them a risk rating of low, medium to high. I'm not chasing high returns of 13% but look for steady boring growth of 7% plus. Ironically, I haven't taken a hit from my highest paying platforms & have made some decent returns. Every platform can have a place in a balanced portfolio but would I advise platform DD as well as loan DD.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 9, 2017 12:44:00 GMT
Etc? Who else offers 12+ secure lending? What is current loss rate on FS and L? FC recovers about 40%, what is their recovery rate? Do you know what loss and recovery rate is going to be on MT? Do you think that doing all lending relying on a property is the right thing ? operating 6 platforms is more time consuming than operating 3, how practical would it be? ABLrate, Blend, HNW, BridgeCrowd, Abundance, Landlord Invest, Capital Rise, Huddle (and more etcs), yes, takes time, but it isn't impossible, which was the original assertion. and yes, property heavy, but with time can also get other stuff Some of these platforms appeared literally last month. Landlord invest advertised 5-10% , not 12%.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Aug 9, 2017 13:14:08 GMT
ABLrate, Blend, HNW, BridgeCrowd, Abundance, Landlord Invest, Capital Rise, Huddle (and more etcs), yes, takes time, but it isn't impossible, which was the original assertion. and yes, property heavy, but with time can also get other stuff Some of these platforms appeared literally last month. Landlord invest advertised 5-10% , not 12%. LLI has up to 19%! Admittedly default rates not yet known. Other older platforms - PropLend (some tranches), Property Crowd, Assetz Capital (older loans only, newer ones lower %), Mintos (if buyback can be considered secured) Anyway, you get my point!
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seabbs
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Post by seabbs on Aug 9, 2017 13:52:41 GMT
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markr
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Post by markr on Aug 9, 2017 15:21:20 GMT
Are you ready to take a bet? I would be ready to put a 5 figure sum that FC IS NOT RECOVERING 40% out of defaults. And I would surely win as I have a large number of defaults and the recovery rate FC achieved for me is only about 21%. I would take that bet, and I would surely win as I have the expected number of defaults and the recovery rates, for loans that defaulted over 2 years ago, is well over 40%. Most are still making recovery payments, and it would be unfair to expect FC to work instant miracles, so shall we allow a reasonable recovery period of, say, 5 years? Rather than wait 5 years, shall we just use FC's own published figure of 45% and I'll win now? How about a double-or-nothing bet that my current "secured" defaults on Funding Secure won't recover 40% after 5 years. Heads up, a lot of it is secured on a Welsh hotel being marketed for less than half the loan amount and a pile of rubble in a Northern seaside town that is probably worth less than the traffic cone that's been dumped on it. Oh, and since I'm not a betting man, the five figure sum I'm prepared to wager is 5 least significant digits of an Assetz Capital figure.
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Post by grahamreeds on Aug 9, 2017 15:21:53 GMT
I'm not happy. I went for the non-diversified approach and put my money in just a few loans. I don't always believe diversification is the best approach, but with FC it seems I got really unlucky. I put money in 18946 (defaulted), 29514 (defaulted), 21802 (defaulted), 18602 (defaulted), 29700 (late and looks sure to default). The odds of almost every loan I touched defaulting must just make me very unlucky. I'm exiting FC with capital loss of around 6K pounds, it's been a truly terrible experience for me and I will never come back. That's just my experience, but good luck to all the other investors who enjoy great returns on FC, sadly I wasn't one of them. That is a very wide spread over very few loans. Out of curiosity when is diversification not the best approach?
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bg
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Post by bg on Aug 9, 2017 15:38:53 GMT
Etc? Who else offers 12+ secure lending? What is current loss rate on FS and L? FC recovers about 40%, what is their recovery rate? Do you know what loss and recovery rate is going to be on MT? Do you think that doing all lending relying on a property is the right thing ? operating 6 platforms is more time consuming than operating 3, how practical would it be? Are you ready to take a bet? I would be ready to put a 5 figure sum that FC IS NOT RECOVERING 40% out of defaults. And I would surely win as I have a large number of defaults and the recovery rate FC achieved for me is only about 21%. I am ready to bet that any security asset (first charge) recovery will always beat hands down any personal guarantee recovery. I operate daily on 5 p2p platforms and have done so for 7+ years and have securities spread in property, cars, jewels, art, coins and a lot more. I have no problems at all with that. (and most of my time is anyway spent doing DD, all the rest is almost automated after my investment...) I would take both bets as well. FC clearly publish their recovery figures, do you have evidence to support that they are maing these numbers up as you seem to be suggesting? You can't take one persons recovery rate and say that that proves the rule (clearly some people will do better and some worse than the 45%). Also that 21% will gradually improve over time as recoveries roll in. Your second bet, i can already win. I had a loan through FC that stopped paying in Dec 2014. Then out of the blue in March this year it repaid in full with interest from a personal guarantee (they sold the guys house). Loan 8122 if you do not believe this. So that's a full recovery from a personal guarantee, albeit it took a couple of years to come through. I have however had 50% losses from secured loans with first charges I do find it amusing so many people think that having security automatically makes a loan way better than an unsecured business loan. Commercial property valuations in particular can be highly subjective and can often be out by multiples (as can remote country houses). Add in mounting interest costs and professional fees you can be looking at losing the majority of your money. Development loans can be even worse as GDV can be meanigless if the development fails and the money has been wasted. It's no surprise to see some of the platforms mentioned in this thread going through big difficulties at the moment while just a few months ago they could do no wrong in many peoples eyes.
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Post by spiker on Aug 9, 2017 16:46:06 GMT
Are you ready to take a bet? I would be ready to put a 5 figure sum that FC IS NOT RECOVERING 40% out of defaults. And I would surely win as I have a large number of defaults and the recovery rate FC achieved for me is only about 21%. For someone to have been around as long as you claim, the ignorance of this statement is alarming... 1. Just because you haven't obtained it doesn't mean its not true 2. You do realise that FC openly publish their recovery stats? (Unless you are accusing them of lying)
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Aug 9, 2017 17:51:36 GMT
I finally pulled out of FC a few months ago, but in about 4.5 years I averaged 12.12% XIRR, at the end recoveries were over 50% of bad debt, and there have been further recoveries over the last few months so now up to 55%.
It was never my biggest platform but my main reason for moving away was that I found FC investing too time consuming.
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Aug 9, 2017 19:25:01 GMT
I've been with FC since the early days, so I have a decent amount of data. I'm gradually easing out, having been burned by several badly managed property loans.
Sadly I have only recovered 11% of defaults to date.
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Post by ratrace on Aug 9, 2017 19:27:38 GMT
Am happy enough with FC. lt gives me what am looking for along with the returns am after. My interest in P2P has always largely been about investing in SME's and only FC gives me the choice am looking for that's all on one platform. Been with FC since Jan 2015 and so understand just what am after and where on the market to find it. Am just a factory worker and like FC for its ease of use and the high returns its given. Which since l started have always been between 9%-13.1% and are now currently standing at 9.9%.
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