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Post by charles on Feb 20, 2017 2:45:17 GMT
Hello fellow P2P investors and Happy Monday to everyone! Without wanting to be overly promotional, I would simply like to alert everyone to our existence. Property Crowd ( www.propertycrowd.com) was founded in 2014 but re-launched in January this year. We focus on institutional grade real estate-backed deals, for a professional/sophisticated investor audience, hence our £5,000 investment minimum. Register on our website to find out more, read my articles if you're interested in the sector, or feel free to drop me a message if you have any queries. Regards, Charles
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Post by charles on Feb 20, 2017 9:20:43 GMT
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 10,483
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 20, 2017 13:38:21 GMT
Welcome, existence noted a few weeks ago.
Should also be noted that this isnt a P2P loans platform and is restricted to FCA defined investor types not the general retail market.
Another Gallium AR like Brickowner, Bricklane, Elevate, though no links with those platforms. No SM but usual offer to seek sale to other investors for early exit.
Quite a complicated lending structure.
Interesting opportunity. Watching brief for me at moment.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 10,483
Likes: 10,653
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 20, 2017 14:44:57 GMT
seems only a 7 month term so no extended lock in. States 12% IRR, doesn't say this is the AER but I am presuming it is. 12% actual return over 7 months would be very attractive... It pays the return at term (not interest as zero coupon bond), so no monthly interest to be compounded so I dont think AER is appropriate in this case.
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Post by charles on Feb 20, 2017 14:58:19 GMT
seems only a 7 month term so no extended lock in. States 12% IRR, doesn't say this is the AER but I am presuming it is. 12% actual return over 7 months would be very attractive... Hi @leopardcat, yes, our debt deals are typically no longer than 12 months in duration. IRR is an annualised figure, so you are right to presume as you have, but I would argue that you could always reinvest after your investment matures, and an annualised yield of 12% in this low interest rate environment isn't too shabby!
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Post by charles on Feb 20, 2017 15:10:04 GMT
Thanks - I had just looked at the page on the link - has your probing highlighted how the return is classed for tax purposes? I have only held bonds in an ISA before so not sure if it counts as interest or dividends. If it is dividends, then that is quite tempting as I have tax free space in that regard. charles - maybe you could clarify? Hi @leopardcat, as ilmoro has correctly identified, our debt deals are structured as zero coupon bonds, so you don't get regular interest payments. You are essentially buying the bond at £X.xx and upon maturity, it is redeemed at a higher price, resulting in a capital gain. However, I'm not qualified to give tax advice or make recommendations in that regard - you should seek a professional opinion to determine what is appropriate to your personal circumstances.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 10,483
Likes: 10,653
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 20, 2017 15:41:15 GMT
Thanks. I don't know the ins and outs of bonds but CAPITAL GAIN is brilliant for me. You might just be getting some of my upcoming loan! Some googling suggests that that capital gain may still be taxed as income but its a bit vague and Im no expert/not advice etc.
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Post by charles on Feb 20, 2017 16:05:12 GMT
Welcome, existence noted a few weeks ago. Should also be noted that this isnt a P2P loans platform and is restricted to FCA defined investor types not the general retail market. Another Gallium AR like Brickowner, Bricklane, Elevate, though no links with those platforms. No SM but usual offer to seek sale to other investors for early exit. Quite a complicated lending structure. Interesting opportunity. Watching brief for me at moment. Thanks ilmoro, great to hear that you've heard of Property Crowd - sophisticated investors such as yourself are exactly our target audience. I would describe ourselves as a P2B platform - linking a professional investor base (the P) to a network of institutional borrowers (the B) - but with a focus on the investment grade, real estate-backed space, where the presence of high quality property as collateral means the risk-reward profile is superior to other forms of P2P/Crowdfunding investment (in my admittedly non-independent opinion). Regarding the lending structure, I would say that there is a necessarily a certain level of "complication" to be expected if you want the same robust frameworks - e.g. SPVs, custodians, segregated accounts - that investors in other securities enjoy. Unfortunately, for too many challengers in the P2P space, "simplicity" is synonymous with regulatory arbitrage, which may mean inadequate consideration of and/or protection against the risks involved.
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Post by charles on Feb 20, 2017 16:30:33 GMT
Just joined - you are my 8th platform. Thank you! And please feel free to read & share some of my articles on real estate crowdfunding, if you have the time. I hope you find them interesting. www.propertycrowd.com/blog/
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shimself
Member of DD Central
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Post by shimself on Feb 21, 2017 17:35:59 GMT
I've tried to be persuaded but you make KYC/identity so much harder than anyone else does I have given up (as I have emailed you to say). I live outside UK in EU but have UK passport and bank account
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bruce75
New Member
Searching high and low for the best risk-adjusted yields...
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Post by bruce75 on Feb 22, 2017 8:02:46 GMT
Registered and had a look around their site yesterday. Looks like a powerful proposition and business model. All the other P2P lenders and property crowdfunding platforms seem to pretend to be experts in everything and do everything under the same roof. Property Crowd works with established parties such as a custodian and principal lenders for deal sourcing who do underwriting every day. From what I can tell, they are truly an independent marketplace, which is something this industry needs. 12% IRR on an asset of that quality in Liverpool with such a low LTV on a senior position is extremely compelling. Has anyone out there invested with them before?
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Post by charles on Feb 22, 2017 8:53:21 GMT
I've tried to be persuaded but you make KYC/identity so much harder than anyone else does I have given up (as I have emailed you to say). I live outside UK in EU but have UK passport and bank account Hi shimself, I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble with our KYC/onboarding process. It's true that we do have more stringent requirements when it comes to these identity checks relative to other platforms, but this is part of our commitment to providing an institutional grade infrastructure for real estate crowdfunding, with strict standards governing every part of the process from onboarding to investment. In your case, it should certainly be a less onerous process seeing as you have a UK passport and a UK bank account, so I hope you will give us a chance to make it right. Would you kindly give one of our team a call at +44 (0)20-7183-6909 (and they will assist with your onboarding), or alternatively, if leave me a private message on this forum with your contact details, I will have someone call you back to sort all this out. Regards Charles
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shimself
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,556
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Post by shimself on Feb 22, 2017 10:38:50 GMT
As you know your KYC is not easy, and is definitely gold plated and more onerous than others require. (institutional grade yadda yadda, it's more than high street banks have required). Anyway, what's bugging me is that I can't even look at the detail of the proposi tion until I've got through this. That's actually obstructive. I understand that accepting money imposes certain duties, but letting me have a nose around need not be made so difficult. After that, I made a note some time ago about a £500 exit fee. Any idea what it is I am thinking of? Alos for the record - when I phone the office they claimed never to have heard of Charles? 
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Post by charles on Feb 22, 2017 15:41:25 GMT
As you know your KYC is not easy, and is definitely gold plated and more onerous than others require. (institutional grade yadda yadda, it's more than high street banks have required). Anyway, what's bugging me is that I can't even look at the detail of the proposi tion until I've got through this. That's actually obstructive. I understand that accepting money imposes certain duties, but letting me have a nose around need not be made so difficult. After that, I made a note some time ago about a £500 exit fee. Any idea what it is I am thinking of? Alos for the record - when I phone the office they claimed never to have heard of Charles?  Respectfully, sir, there is no need to cast aspersions. We have chosen to maintain high standards with regards to regulatory compliance, and do not compromise on them just because competitors have taken a different approach. In your case, we simply need certified documents for KYC as you are currently outside the UK and thus haven't been able to clear the online ID checks automatically. The deals and their details contain information which might be considered sensitive, and thus our policy is to release them only to serious investors, the identities of whom we have properly verified - a reasonable stance, would you not agree? Once again, I apologise for the inconvenience, but I am unable to just wave you through re: KYC. I hope you are able to provide us with the relevant documents, and we will gladly give you access. We would love to have you as an investor. P.S. I don't know to whom you spoke, but I assure you, J'existe - see my articles on Property Crowd www.propertycrowd.com/blog/
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Post by charles on Feb 22, 2017 15:48:39 GMT
After that, I made a note some time ago about a £500 exit fee. Any idea what it is I am thinking of? I can't find anything about an exit fee, although it says that if an SM is established that there may be fees applied to that. It specifically states "Property Crowd Investors are not charged any fees upon subscription, holding or redemption". @leopardcat We certainly do not charge any fees to investors, entry, exit or otherwise. I think shimself may be making a spurious reference to how fund supermarkets charge investors £500 on average to move to cheaper online brokers - see article www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/10714610/Ban-fund-supermarket-exit-fees.html
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