ben
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Post by ben on Feb 27, 2017 14:08:11 GMT
Where will your money go to then? Only FS gives more. MT, COL, ABL, BC and some new players like Landlordinvest(with IFISA!) & Property Crowd. All these are offer loans over 10% and several 12% loans in the mix However, alway keep an eye on the risk! That is the problem with SS; the sub 12% loans simply don't represent the risk investors take In most of the loans 12% does not reflect the risk either.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 27, 2017 14:54:23 GMT
MT, COL, ABL, BC and some new players like Landlordinvest(with IFISA!) & Property Crowd. All these are offer loans over 10% and several 12% loans in the mix However, alway keep an eye on the risk! That is the problem with SS; the sub 12% loans simply don't represent the risk investors take In most of the loans 12% does not reflect the risk either. That is correct There are some loans on SS I wouldn't have invested in @ 12%, and now I see the same sort of loans being offered at a lower rate. What really annoys me is that these loans easily fill.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 27, 2017 16:07:58 GMT
There are some loans on SS I wouldn't have invested in @ 12%, and now I see the same sort of loans being offered at a lower rate. What really annoys me is that these loans easily fill. In some respects I can't criticise SS. If P2P Lenders are individual suppliers to SS, then all SS is doing is sourcing from the cheapest supplier. Is that taking advantage? It's arguable both ways: Sure, SS are setting the supplier rate, but no one is forced to lend. Sure, information provided could be better, but SS 'encourage' lenders to do their own DD. Does the rate offered to Lenders accurately reflect risk? SS would argue that's for the individual to decide. (Although lenders would have a much better clue as to risk if SS published what rate it lent to Borrowers at.) What we need is a few losses to deter the 'blind investors' who don't realise the risk they are taking on. Without that level of unsophisticated investment filling the 8% loans, SS will have to raise its rate to lenders who are aware that to actually make 8% you need to invest in 10% loans and accept some losses. Can't see it happening on this round of defaults - a possible loss of interest is my prediction for worst case - but future defaults may see a loss of capital and that should stir things up. And for the better, in my opinion. SS are exploiting investors who don't appreciate the risk. My issue is that on the back of other investors money SS are (or may be, in some cases) profiteering, and that is simply wrong. To do so SS withhold as much information from the investor as possible, the key one being the contract (on key information in that contract) There is a minimal risk at SS end; the company has no skin in the game and we now have little information about what rates they are receiving their end. It used to be clear cut - we get 1%, they get 0.5% + Fees, gather your thoughts, see the VR, do some DD then invest or don't. Fine; lower rates, safer loans and bigger loan book. I get that. However, I'm simply not convinced there are lower rate in every case, and for investors to appreciate what risk they are taking, I think it is fundamentally important that we know what rate the borrower is paying. If the investor is providing 8% and the borrower is paying 18%, then something is seriously wrong, as the investor is providing 100% of the risk, but only receiving 40% of the returns. Don't get me wrong, SS need to make money, and a healthier platform is good for everyone, but not by shifting the risk towards the lender. JMO
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Feb 27, 2017 21:09:02 GMT
You're right Dude, SS need to have a good long think about what they're doing.
And once they've done this, they'll carry on exactly the same.
For, it is obvious, they are following a Plan.
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Post by 101proof on Feb 27, 2017 22:37:32 GMT
I live near this so if anyone wants updates, let me know If I understand correctly this is on an old tin-mining site, and there are potential issues with soil contamination and ground stability. Looking at maps the gradient doesn't seem too bad, so stability may not be a major issue (but it has to be addressed in the plans before construction can go ahead, and I wouldn't buy a plot until it had been resolved). [The twice-overrunning Congleton loans at FC might be on a worse site, topographically.] Can you comment on these points? will go and get some pics over next few days and post them up here
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Bagman
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Post by Bagman on Feb 28, 2017 1:56:14 GMT
I live near this so if anyone wants updates, let me know I am just down the coast in St Ives, so next time I am up that way on the bike I will have a little look see as well.
The borrowers eco development in Carbis Bay is struggling to sell units with the holiday let only conditions they applied for when they got the planning permissions.
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Feb 28, 2017 2:19:39 GMT
There are some loans on SS I wouldn't have invested in @ 12%, and now I see the same sort of loans being offered at a lower rate. What really annoys me is that these loans easily fill. Does the rate offered to Lenders accurately reflect risk? SS would argue that's for the individual to decide. (Although lenders would have a much better clue as to risk if SS published what rate it lent to Borrowers at.) What we need is a few losses to deter the 'blind investors' who don't realise the risk they are taking on. Without that level of unsophisticated investment filling the 8% loans, SS will have to raise its rate to lenders who are aware that to actually make 8% you need to invest in 10% loans and accept some losses.
"Does the rate offered to Lenders accurately reflect risk?"
IMO not at all.
There is a very strong correlation between the loan size and the interest rate offered. SS don't appear to factor loan risk into the interest rate offered.
Up to loan size £1m is 9%. More recently below 500k is 8%.*
Loan size £1 to 1.5m is 10%
Loan size £1.8m to £3.5m is 11%
* Note: DFL14 breaks the rule, but there are more tranches to come.
If DFL17 is successfully launched at 11% (7.452m), then I fear we may not see any new loans at 12%.
Also note that the number of investors in a loan is also highly correlated to the interest rate.
8% (750-1080)
9% (900-1250), it's (1000-1250 for recent loans)
10% (1400-1520)
11% (1975-2520)
My conclusion is that most lenders do no DD and invest purely by the interest rate offered.
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am
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Post by am on Feb 28, 2017 9:56:11 GMT
Does anyone know what eco-style means?
The Phase 1 properties have Sedum roofs, but the energy efficiency/carbon footprint is nothing to write home about.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 28, 2017 10:12:26 GMT
Does anyone know what eco-style means? It looks like it hugs bunnies, but doesn't really.
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Post by supernumerary on Feb 28, 2017 12:12:32 GMT
There is a minimal risk at SS end; the company has no skin in the game and we now have little information about what rates they are receiving their end. It used to be clear cut - we get 1%, they get 0.5% + Fees, gather your thoughts, see the VR, do some DD then invest or don't. Fine; lower rates, safer loans and bigger loan book. I get that. However, I'm simply not convinced there are lower rate in every case, and for investors to appreciate what risk they are taking, I think it is fundamentally important that we know what rate the borrower is paying. If the investor is providing 8% and the borrower is paying 18%, then something is seriously wrong, as the investor is providing 100% of the risk, but only receiving 40% of the returns. Those two paragraphs, IMHO, very sadly, do not make easy reading... 
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 28, 2017 12:14:29 GMT
Does anyone know what eco-style means? Grass on the roof?
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Post by supernumerary on Feb 28, 2017 12:31:44 GMT
There is a very strong correlation between the loan size and the interest rate offered. SS don't appear to factor loan risk into the interest rate offered. Up to loan size £1m is 9%. More recently below 500k is 8%.* Loan size £1 to 1.5m is 10% Loan size £1.8m to £3.5m is 11% * Note: DFL14 breaks the rule, but there are more tranches to come. If DFL17 is successfully launched at 11% (7.452m), then I fear we may not see any new loans at 12%. Also note that the number of investors in a loan is also highly correlated to the interest rate.8% (750-1080) 9% (900-1250), it's (1000-1250 for recent loans) 10% (1400-1520) 11% (1975-2520) My conclusion is that most lenders do no DD and invest purely by the interest rate offered. Succinctly posted. I have tried to maintain a positive outlook on the recent changes at Saving Stream. It was noted by another poster, that the timing of the launch of DFL17, may coincide with the repayment of PBL143... Hence the 11% rate perhaps?
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twoheads
Member of DD Central
Programming
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Post by twoheads on Mar 8, 2017 14:15:17 GMT
PBL163 now live (as of 14:12).
EDIT: PBL164 now live (as of 14:49).
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chunkie
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Post by chunkie on Mar 8, 2017 14:44:14 GMT
Pre funded and got 2,000. Looking to sell on SM when it gets to ca. 100 days
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 8, 2017 14:50:52 GMT
Second loan live
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