pom
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Post by pom on Mar 6, 2017 12:22:08 GMT
Sooo I do have another thing on my mind - not sure how much you guys will be able to relate, whilst it's pretty clear we're probably all the main breadwinners here, you at least have conventionality on your side, so maybe it's not even something you've ever questioned, maybe you've always just operated one big pot. But I'd be interested in hearing any experiences/views you're willing to share. So.... what do you do if you can't retire at the same time? How do you deal with "for richer, for poorer" simultaneously? We've always kept our finances loosely coupled - we have joint accounts that we contribute equally to for day to day living but the majority of our money is separate (albeit offsetting the mortgage, which I could pay off but we agreed I wouldn't). Our attitude pisses my IFA off as naturally he told me I should be maximising 2 ISAs - with the way allowances keep rising he kinda has a point in terms of tax, but it's just not the way we are. We're not totally rigid about it, I'd been subsidising big ticket items increasingly even before the windfall. But it's a massive step from subsidising to supporting, and he wouldn't want to be kept any more than I would. So barring his own premature windfalls we're looking at a gap of at least 6-7 years. Difficult to tell cos his final salary pension has recently been completely changed and apparently no-one really knows what the implications are yet. And we're not entirely confident he'll still have a job that long anyway, but cross that bridge when we come to it (tho having the element of choice removed would in some ways make it easier!). Actually I don't really forsee any of this being a major issue, gives me a head start on finally working out what I want to do when I grow up anyway! But yeah at risk of prematurely shutting down this thread (as willingness to be honest in public is possibly about to drop thru the floor!) would love to hear other views/experience!! (PS treeman Not working today in lieu of Sat so as soon as my sourdough finishes baking I'm gonna go find somewhere to stand and stare, tho perhaps a handy window given the not very promising weather )
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Mar 6, 2017 13:12:05 GMT
Lots to think about...thanks guys...(starting to wonder if it's only going to be guys responding ?!) OK, I give in Wasn't going to bother, having pretty much laid my situation out for all on several occasions, but I'll stick in my experience - not advice because I'm a bit unusual and what's good for me really isn't going to be good for everyone. My father died unexpectedly at age 55, so all the dreams he and my mother had for just a few years down the line never got so much as a look-in. I decided there and then that it wasn't going to happen to me and I have made it so. Time is a commodity that for me is infinitely more valuable than money and I find it so much more rewarding to be able to deliberate about how I'm going to spend my time than I ever do thinking about how to spend my money. I gave up working for other people and doing what they wanted of me at times of their choosing in exchange for money when I was still 'young'ish. I did it once when I was in my 30s, and went and set up an animal charity with a friend in Italy, but personal circumstances caused me to get sucked back into being employed a few years later. But I kept my freemdom very much in mind, formulated my plan and few years later I was properly free. By the final 4 or 5 years before I stopped I manoevred my working life to be a self-employed consultant in a niche area of IT project management so that I got paid more for just 3 days working a week than most people dream of for full-time work. It involved me taking a huge leap of faith, resigning my employed role without the slightest idea whether I would get suitable contracts, but I 'felt the fear and did it anyway'. I've always trusted myself not to starve and I haven't so far. I believe that most people make their decisions based around the fear of what might happen rather than on the acutal likelihood of it happening, and in consequence their lives stay comparatively limited. I try as much as possible to understand if fear of something is driving a decision, and then try to take it out of the equation and that's kind of led me to where I am now - happy with my lot. I stopped work with just a couple of years worth of money as a cushion, no real plan for how I would survive until I could take my pensions, but trusting that I'd manage it. I had developed a hobby during the previous 10 or so years of investing in stocks and shares, and honed my abilities in that area. The crucial part of being able to afford it was that having sold my jointly owned house as part of a divorce process I didn't buy, and still haven't bought, another. Instead I rent, and the income that comes from the invested house money pays for the rent, my living expenses and usually some left over for re-investment. I had already started p2p early with the then new kid on the block Zopa, but once I was free p2p started to flourish and I had the time to indulge in multiple new paltforms. Making good returns on my money had become much more important. I then digressed into financial trading, which I found was well suited to my temperament and it now takes up as much of my time as I want it to - varies from a few days a month when I'm busy to most days when I'm not. I can trade from anywhere in the world as long as there's an internet connection - an ideal passtime for someone with the wanderlust I have. The main problems with my lifestyle are what to put on the forms that ask for your occupation (I don't think retired is really right yet), and how to succinctly answer that most tedious of party questions "What do you do?" - my stock answers to that one including "depends what time of day you mean and which day of the week", "whatever I feel like doing" and "sometimes I'm travelling, sometimes I'm doing the garden, sometimes I'm being a lady-wot-lunches, sometimes I'm trading, sometimes I'm pretending to be a gym-bunny, sometimes.................. etc". Several years down the line I still love that most days I can get out of bed when I want, be it early or late (I can stay up all night to watch elections unfold - yes, I am that sad!), and I can then decide what I want to do that day and go and do it. I'm becoming a bit more constrained in lifestyle because of my elderly mother needing a fair bit of help, but giving her a varied life is proving to be satisfying in itself. I was alerted to this thread in the middle of researching my next big travel adventure - a feature of my freedom. There are of course still stressful times, even now I'm free. That's just life. For example, I recently had to move house at a time that was not at all of my choosing, and the threat of homelessness (or at least having to go through courts and legal processes) was hanging over me for a while. None of it would have happened if I owned my house and wasn't renting, but it's part of the price my personal circumstance means I have to pay for my freedom for the moment. The resolution to that particular stress has in any case left me better located, in a better house (and certainly better than I could buy) where I'm secure for many years to come if that's what I turn out to want. I really believe life is generally good if you make it so, but it's even better when you're free!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 15:24:34 GMT
Ramblin rose paints a picture that chimes with my thoughts, when I did a lot of work on understanding how people think (I did a lot of research and a lot of change programmes for businesses) I found that most people have built a cage (think bird cage) around themselves and even when they are given a helping hand to open the cage, often will step back in and pull the cage shut behind them. These cages (which the inhabitant may see as a safe nest or small life boats) are tough to break down but if you do suddenly there is a much bigger world out there, don't get tricked into building a bigger cage around yourself. Interestingly the people who found that stepping out of the cage was easy were not the ones you would expect, often it was the quiet guy in the corner who suddenly saw a new way of living or working, while the educated, free-thinker struggled. BTW Mrs bobo joined me a year after I stopped (she was made redundant) and now fills her life with her hobbies, still it meant we got married after 30 years together to beat the taxman.
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Post by mrclondon on Mar 6, 2017 15:57:35 GMT
Just before I retired, one of my colleagues (think of him sat in @bobo's bird cage with the door open) said he feared I would end up like Thomas Wilson from W. Somerset Maugham's short story The Lotus Eater. I think the link is to the full story, it is currently published in volume 4 of the collected short stories, and will be familiar to some from 'O' level English Lit. Plot synopsis (from wikipedia) "The story begins in 1913 with the narrator's visit to a friend on the Island of Capri in Italy. The friend introduces the narrator to Thomas Wilson, who had come to the island for a holiday sixteen years earlier. A year after that holiday, Wilson had given up his job in London as a bank manager to live a life of simplicity and enjoyment in a small cottage on Capri. Enchanted by the island during his visit, he had made the decision during the intervening year to forgo working another twelve or thirteen years for his pension and instead to take his accumulated savings and purchase at once an annuity that would allow him to live simply on Capri for twenty-five years. And what will happen at the end of that twenty-five years, fifteen of which have already passed, asks the narrator; many men die by sixty, but many do not. Wilson does not directly answer the question, but he implies that if nature does not carry him off by the age of sixty, he will be content to dispatch himself, having lived a life of his own choosing in the meantime. The narrator of the story is stunned by such a bold plan, all the more because Wilson has the appearance and manner of an unremarkable, ordinary man--very much that of the bank manager he once was."
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treeman
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Post by treeman on Mar 6, 2017 16:32:31 GMT
(PS treeman Not working today in lieu of Sat so as soon as my sourdough finishes baking I'm gonna go find somewhere to stand and stare, tho perhaps a handy window given the not very promising weather ) Ha! Wimp-out ! You're not seriously gonna wait for it to not be raining are you ?!?!? In England ..... I believe you're in the southwest too ? - agreed it wasn't T-shirt lovely this morning but it's only a bit of water ......... Seriously though, Did you get to 'turn the machines off' for a little while? Me? After a patrol around my 'estate' to check that spring is still springing (it is - the bluebells in my woods are well on the way), I wellied-up and headed off cross-country to the river for a nose around and a bit of otter-spotting (no luck - but a mate saw one at a distance on Saturday). Headed back on the 'summer route' which turned out to be a bit of a mistake - mighty boggy - damn near lost a welly.......probably leave it a while....... Your other ponderings regarding finances / partners etc heads into very much personal territory. Folks are all different and that dynamic really is something only you can figure out ........ FWIW - Mrs Treeman carried on working initially but has since joined me on the freedom trail. Our finances have always been pooled. I always earned more but it just went in the bucket. Neither of us look at it as 'supported/supporting'. Life Team. We do, however, make full use of all possible allowances as a matter of course. It is worth considering how you would get on spending more time together - 24/7 can be tough. Separate time is important. Gives you something to talk about ! (Even on long travels we make a point of doing a bit of solo now and then.) Far easier to work through in advance. As with any big change it needs 'managing' .....
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Mar 6, 2017 19:26:00 GMT
This thread leads you to wonder if there is actually anyone who isn't retired on here lol
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Mar 6, 2017 20:30:58 GMT
Just before I retired, one of my colleagues (think of him sat in @bobo 's bird cage with the door open) said he feared I would end up like Thomas Wilson from W. Somerset Maugham's short story The Lotus Eater. I think the link is to the full story, it is currently published in volume 4 of the collected short stories, and will be familiar to some from 'O' level English Lit. Plot synopsis (from wikipedia) "The story begins in 1913 with the narrator's visit to a friend on the Island of Capri in Italy. The friend introduces the narrator to Thomas Wilson, who had come to the island for a holiday sixteen years earlier. A year after that holiday, Wilson had given up his job in London as a bank manager to live a life of simplicity and enjoyment in a small cottage on Capri. Enchanted by the island during his visit, he had made the decision during the intervening year to forgo working another twelve or thirteen years for his pension and instead to take his accumulated savings and purchase at once an annuity that would allow him to live simply on Capri for twenty-five years. And what will happen at the end of that twenty-five years, fifteen of which have already passed, asks the narrator; many men die by sixty, but many do not. Wilson does not directly answer the question, but he implies that if nature does not carry him off by the age of sixty, he will be content to dispatch himself, having lived a life of his own choosing in the meantime. The narrator of the story is stunned by such a bold plan, all the more because Wilson has the appearance and manner of an unremarkable, ordinary man--very much that of the bank manager he once was."Not sure I fancy the Lotus Eater outcome, but when I spend my days by the pool at the Villa la Mauresque, that's when I'll really be retired. Either that, or it'll have to be the seedy opium den in the 'Far East', I suppose
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pom
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Post by pom on Mar 6, 2017 22:30:34 GMT
(PS treeman Not working today in lieu of Sat so as soon as my sourdough finishes baking I'm gonna go find somewhere to stand and stare, tho perhaps a handy window given the not very promising weather ) Ha! Wimp-out ! You're not seriously gonna wait for it to not be raining are you ?!?!? In England ..... I believe you're in the southwest too ? - agreed it wasn't T-shirt lovely this morning but it's only a bit of water ......... Seriously though, Did you get to 'turn the machines off' for a little while? Me? After a patrol around my 'estate' to check that spring is still springing (it is - the bluebells in my woods are well on the way), I wellied-up and headed off cross-country to the river for a nose around and a bit of otter-spotting (no luck - but a mate saw one at a distance on Saturday). Headed back on the 'summer route' which turned out to be a bit of a mistake - mighty boggy - damn near lost a welly.......probably leave it a while....... Well I'd prefer to scope out current mud levels without also having to worry about stuff falling out of the sky at the same time (specially as the mud on my favourite walk tends to not entirely be mud..so definitely needs a lot of welly caution)....but actually I kinda ran out of time today. Did spend some quality time admiring my cat (always helps) who was showboating terribly when a friend popped round. Had a good chat with her too which was quite amusing cos she went straight into the "oh no, you can't, what would you do?" and then accidentally hit the nail on the head by raving about how good I was when she saw one of my rare public speaking occurrences a while back, how different I was, how I captivated them, that it was so obvious how enthusiastic and knowledgeable I was about the subject etc. Yep...and it's years since I've bothered to switch myself on that much for work....so actually if I don't need the money am not using half my skills and not loving it then... why? So...will I hand in my notice first thing tomorrow morning? Nope. But I will be looking up how much notice I have to give and starting to plan, and my target date suddenly got a LOT closer.
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pom
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Post by pom on Mar 6, 2017 23:39:06 GMT
I decided there and then that it wasn't going to happen to me and I have made it so. Thanks ramblin rose had seen some hints before, but most of your sharing was probably before I joined. And yeah totally different circumstances but it's still been very helpful. Treeman came close but your line above is exactly it, but with rather different results, and a major contributor to my current dilemma. And I had a whole post written... twice... but I think it might be too much to share (except perhaps to say that my mum was 38 so it goes deep). But even if events may shape us there's always so much more to us than our defining events. It's enough I think that I've unravelled it for myself. Generally, I'm just blown away by all the responses - thank you.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 7, 2017 7:53:39 GMT
Either that, or it'll have to be the seedy opium den in the 'Far East', I suppose Never really associated Lowestoft with opium dens. Great Yarmouth.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 7, 2017 7:55:28 GMT
So...will I hand in my notice first thing tomorrow morning? Nope. But I will be looking up how much notice I have to give and starting to plan, and my target date suddenly got a LOT closer. Good for you - and good luck! (This afternoon should be an auspicious time to hand your notice in, btw)
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 7, 2017 8:52:38 GMT
I discussed this with several of my ex-colleagues (all similiarly fed up with the direction of the company) and the basic conclusion was (assuming mortgage paid off) £15k pa income for a single person £20k pa for a couple covers all necessities (including car depreciation) with ease, then a further £5k pa per person for holidays and treats. Wow. I've come late to this party (oh, and should be working at the moment...but hell, conf call on the hour). I started /put together my future finances spreadsheet in semi-serious fashion about 6 months ago. To work out income needs, rather than do a 'bottom up' build I went back and looked at actual spend over a couple of years. I reckon I'm pretty frugal (considering the level of income I currently have) and came to the conclusion that I'd want to budget on about £30-33k pa (allowing for irregular one off capital items like car purchases etc). That included an assumption that I would want some level of greater spend than while I'm in work due to the additional free time.
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Mar 7, 2017 9:09:28 GMT
Yep...and it's years since I've bothered to switch myself on that much for work....so actually if I don't need the money am not using half my skills and not loving it then... why? So...will I hand in my notice first thing tomorrow morning? Nope. But I will be looking up how much notice I have to give and starting to plan, and my target date suddenly got a LOT closer. I have several handy ways of helping me choose between different options on big life decisions and it's rare that one of them doesn't provide the obvious answer. The second and third are perhaps particular to a person with a high tolerance for risk and who is well-practiced in accepting and not worrying about the fear of the unknown, but they are definitely good for me. 1) I imagine I am now in my 80s and looking back on this time and this decision - what is it that I'd wish I had done, or would be pleased I had done? (For me this is the one that cuts out all the irrelevancies) 2) As mentioned above, is fear driving any of them? 3) Which is the 'road less travelled'? - that's my maverick side which has me always wanting to do something different. Whatever you do pom, it will be the right decision, because you can make it be successful for you, whatever it is.
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 7, 2017 9:13:32 GMT
... So.... what do you do if you can't retire at the same time? How do you deal with "for richer, for poorer" simultaneously? We've always kept our finances loosely coupled - we have joint accounts that we contribute equally to for day to day living but the majority of our money is separate (albeit offsetting the mortgage, which I could pay off but we agreed I wouldn't). Our attitude pisses my IFA off as naturally he told me I should be maximising 2 ISAs - with the way allowances keep rising he kinda has a point in terms of tax, but it's just not the way we are. We're not totally rigid about it, I'd been subsidising big ticket items increasingly even before the windfall. But it's a massive step from subsidising to supporting, and he wouldn't want to be kept any more than I would. ... Kind of similar - but also not - to my situation. We keep our finances loosely coupled, contribute nearly equally (but I contribute a bit more) to everyday and most bigger ticket stuff, with my also deciding to fund quite a few of the non-essential larger ticket items. Likewise position with offsetting other halfs mortgage. But the retirement piece could turn that situation on its head. My other half has the benefit of a very generous DB scheme which means they can retire in about 3 years after 30 yrs service at a touch under 50. Would be mad for them to lose a chunk of that by them leaving early. So if I took the plunge early (e.g. now'ish ) there would only be a 3 yr gap, but on the other hand financial positions are likely to be somewhat reversed, even after they take retirement: certainly in terms of surety/security of finances.
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pom
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Post by pom on Mar 7, 2017 10:00:14 GMT
I discussed this with several of my ex-colleagues (all similiarly fed up with the direction of the company) and the basic conclusion was (assuming mortgage paid off) £15k pa income for a single person £20k pa for a couple covers all necessities (including car depreciation) with ease, then a further £5k pa per person for holidays and treats. Wow. I've come late to this party (oh, and should be working at the moment...but hell, conf call on the hour). I started /put together my future finances spreadsheet in semi-serious fashion about 6 months ago. To work out income needs, rather than do a 'bottom up' build I went back and looked at actual spend over a couple of years. I reckon I'm pretty frugal (considering the level of income I currently have) and came to the conclusion that I'd want to budget on about £30-33k pa (allowing for irregular one off capital items like car purchases etc). That included an assumption that I would want some level of greater spend than while I'm in work due to the additional free time. Hehe conf calls are great for getting other stuff done. I was slightly surprised by mrclondon's figures too - but actually 20k+2x5k isn't far off your figures either...unless you were counting just for you... Meanwhile one of the things my IFA put together for me was a set of projections as to how long my cash would last if I were spending 40,50,60 or 70k a year (which was certainly eyeopening albeit totally irrelevant to my needs )
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