ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Mar 17, 2017 12:11:33 GMT
We all know about these, we have to make VERY important investment decisions based on what's contained therein, only to discover, after even the most cursory DD, that a "Report" is often totally useless, if not complete b******t.
These "Reports" are being deliberately presented in a certain way to achieve an Objective of which most of us are savvy. The practice needs to be stopped, now.
I urge my fellow p2pindepententforumers to please Complain loud and long to both RICS and the FCA regarding the consistent misrepresentation, I have already done so.
If you need an example, then T** C****t on SS was a doozy, but there are many, many others, as we all know.
Do it folks, you might find life a lot easier when you can trust all these "Valuation Reports" and can arguably cut your DD down by at least 50%!
Of course, RICS and the FCA would have to actually DO something.
I thank you.
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Post by charles on Mar 17, 2017 12:27:18 GMT
We all know about these, we have to make VERY important investment decisions based on what's contained therein, only to discover, after even the most cursory DD, that a "Report" is often totally useless, if not complete b******t. These "Reports" are being deliberately presented in a certain way to achieve an Objective of which most of us are savvy. The practice needs to be stopped, now. I urge my fellow p2pindepententforumers to please Complain loud and long to both RICS and the FCA regarding the consistent misrepresentation, I have already done so. If you need an example, then T** C****t on SS was a doozy, but there are many, many others, as we all know. Do it folks, you might find life a lot easier when you can trust all these "Valuation Reports" and can arguably cut your DD down by at least 50%! Of course, RICS and the FCA would have to actually DO something. I thank you. Hi ozboy , thank you for raising this very important point to the attention of fellow Forum members. May I ask if you've had a chance to review the valuation reports we provide on Property Crowd? I am genuinely interested in your opinion and would wish to address any issues if we somehow fall short. Kind regards, Charles
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
Posts: 3,168
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Post by ozboy on Mar 17, 2017 12:42:31 GMT
I have raised this Issue several times on this Forum to the usual fairly apathetic response, I call it the "British Disease", can't rock the boat can we, must be polite at all costs, even whilst being right royally s*****d?
Unfortunately Investor Lenders get what they deserve.
If your VRs are Fair, Decent, Honest & Accurate, Charles, your Platform will flourish, I'll take a look in due course.
Thank you for acknowledging and agreeing that this Issue is of paramount importance.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Mar 17, 2017 13:00:52 GMT
One example on SS doesn't make a convincing case (mind you I would offer the scottish baby factory bloke fraudster for another). Do you have a little list you could PM me?
Thanks
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Mar 17, 2017 16:06:30 GMT
There's FAR more than that one example, as surely you're aware shimself?
With respect, I don't have time to compile a little list, if you know of other examples please Complain to RICS & FCA, although AFAIK you only need one. I've done my bit and it's now up to others to complain if they want this practice stopped.
Or do nothing and continue to suffer the consequences.
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fp
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Post by fp on Mar 17, 2017 20:49:57 GMT
There is a very simple solution ozboy, if you don't trust the valuation... don't invest in the product. |
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Mar 17, 2017 21:29:09 GMT
There is a very simple solution ozboy , if you don't trust the valuation... don't invest in the product. Que? There is a very simple answer fp, I don't. My concern is for those who trust these VRs to make their decisions. I thought that was obvious.
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fp
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Post by fp on Mar 17, 2017 21:36:07 GMT
There is a very simple solution ozboy , if you don't trust the valuation... don't invest in the product. Que? There is a very simple answer fp, I don't. My concern is for those who trust these VRs to make their decisions. I thought that was obvious. Don't worry about it, I guess they must be suffering from this "British disease" you mention, we can't all be as sharp as you Aussies can we sport. 
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 17, 2017 22:28:14 GMT
The simple fact is the Surveyors are being paid to do their job by the borrower, and the results are going to be skewed in their favour. I have heard stories; one includes a surveyor outright asking his customer what value they would like applied.
It's best to use a bit of common sense when investing and not take these things at face value. Look at recent sales with both the subject property and surrounding properties.
....then ask yourself - why do you think you're receiving 10% - 12% (with the borrower paying >15%) ?
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Mar 17, 2017 22:29:51 GMT
I do have an idea which should improve things, the valuer should always research and include any sales of the property in question within the last 10? years, and comment in the same way they do with comparables.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 17, 2017 22:36:26 GMT
I do have an idea which should improve things, the valuer should always research and include any sales of the property in question within the last 10? years, and comment in the same way they do with comparables. It's hard to see why they don't - 5min googling is all it takes (this applies to a lot of information that most VRs seem to miss...) I'm also surprised not to see a LR document in each VR - it is only £3 and will show any restrictions, freehold/ lease information and last sale price.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Mar 17, 2017 22:42:46 GMT
There's FAR more than that one example, as surely you're aware shimself? With respect, I don't have time to compile a little list, if you know of other examples please Complain to RICS & FCA, although AFAIK you only need one. I've done my bit and it's now up to others to complain if they want this practice stopped. Or do nothing and continue to suffer the consequences. Well I've looked at those you have posted about and found: ss pbl107 pbl112 pbl165 dfl107 FS w****l development, 2107526206 I'm not sure of a general theme as to their defects. Partly about not sufficiently stressing the if PP is granted aspect, otherwise not sure. I'm out of SS since the moment I found out about their undisclosed equity investment in PBL020. I'm all for more reliable less misleading valuations, but the complaints would need better detail to get anywhere
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Mar 17, 2017 22:48:32 GMT
I do have an idea which should improve things, the valuer should always research and include any sales of the property in question within the last 10? years, and comment in the same way they do with comparables. It's hard to see why they don't - 5min googling is all it takes (this applies to a lot of information that most VRs seem to miss...) I'm also surprised not to see a LR document in each VR - it is only £3 and will show any restrictions, freehold/ lease information and last sale price. It's easy to see why they don't, they want to skip along their professional stepping stones in the good ole economical with the verité way that they can deceive the unwary, and console themselves by saying that we (the punters) should have asked the right question etc . So in this regard it probably is worth giving the regulators a prod
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Mar 18, 2017 2:37:11 GMT
IMO the worst valuation to date was A****sey on AC.
1. AC hid the Valuation Report from lenders, but stated it at 69% LTV
2. When the loan was about to default, AC openly stated "We retain a First Legal Charge over the property and the refurbishment work has been completed improving the valuation from when loan was originally drawn down."
3. 18 months later, Lenders voted against 2 options to sell the property at a loss, overwhelmingly selecting a third option not to sell at a loss.
(12% didn't vote).
4. AC then ran another lender vote without the third option, thereby forcing the property to be sold at a big loss. (64% didn't vote)
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5. From the increase in the NO vote it is clear that AC went against lenders wishes.
6. AC won't pursue the valuer.
It stinks.
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upland
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Post by upland on Mar 18, 2017 9:09:12 GMT
Good thread , its something that needs a lot of debate.
I am not that experienced with DD and tend to be fairly cursory with it. I am usually more concerned about how much of the asset do I have title to if it all goes horribly wrong and hence avoid high LTV / higher charges / tranches etc. My main defence is to diversify which I do. After many years in equities I know that it does not take many bad bets to reduce the average return to something not worth having.
I find some of the pawnbroker loans a bit of a worry , in effect sometimes its just a picture or line of text and it says "give me £25" - easy money if you can get it. But I guess property or cars are in theory easier to double check and come up with a reasonable value on. I fall down on not often being able to interpret the asset in the situation (Here CD and others are brilliant) I think that some of the AC loans were complicated and has been said some have come a cropper and it seems that the asset was worth nothing like. I think that that was only part of the problem. Many of the SS loans are not simple too but as has been mentioned the carrot is often good.
I have always felt that the real money to be made is when the platform is sold on to the big boys , stinging a few investors for a bit does not get anyone anywhere I think.
I have had several p2p accounts for a few years now and am almost in the position of being able to work out some reasonable rate of real return. All in all if I dont do that well out of the platform then my money will drift away from it. Hopefully I will thus avoid the platforms that are "optimistic with the truth".
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