ozaz
Posts: 36 
Likes: 15
|
Post by ozaz on May 12, 2017 6:58:49 GMT
I don't think that would work. You can only subscribe this year's £20k to a 2017/18 ISA (or more than one if different types). Previous year's ISAs can be transferred in part or in full to new accounts that you happen to open in this year, but they are still previous year's ISAs. Not sure I understand why that wouldn't work. I was under the impression that you could pay your allowance into a previous year ISA and that transferring money from that ISA would not be considered as a subscription. Is it not possible to do both during the same tax year? In addition to my IFISA question, I had also asked another question of HMRC which might help here Q) On your website I read the following statement: "If you want to transfer money you’ve invested in an ISA during the current year, you must transfer all of it." www.gov.uk/individual-savings-accounts/transferring-your-isa
I'm unclear on whether "must transfer all of it" is referring to the ISA account or to the portion added to the account in the current year.
example: My cash ISA has £40k in it entirely funded from previous years. If I add £5k to it this year, does it mean I would not be allowed to do any partial transfers from this ISA this year? Or am I still allowed to do partial transfers from it which cumulatively don't exceed £40k?
A) You must transfer all of the current year’s ISA subscriptions and/or you can transfer some or all of the previous years’ ISA subscriptions.
Using your example, if you have a cash ISA with £40,000 containing previous years subscriptions and a current year subscription of £5,000, when you transfer this over the £40,000 can be split anyway you choose but the current year subscription has to be transferred as a whole into one of the IFISAs. The current year subscription cannot be split.
|
|
pikestaff
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,187
Likes: 1,546
|
Post by pikestaff on May 12, 2017 7:02:18 GMT
I don't think that would work. You can only subscribe this year's £20k to a 2017/18 ISA (or more than one if different types). Previous year's ISAs can be transferred in part or in full to new accounts that you happen to open in this year, but they are still previous year's ISAs. Not sure I understand why that wouldn't work. I was under the impression that you could pay your allowance into a previous year ISA and that transferring money from that ISA would not be considered as a subscription. Is it not possible to do both during the same tax year? I think what you wrote originally would work - certainly if you transferred the money before you made your new subscription. If you did it the other way round you might need to be more careful (not sure as I've never tried). Edits: (1) the point in my last sentence is covered off by ozaz's post above. (2) cavalier below is technically correct but your original post was talking about payments to an ISA account, which may well contain multiple years' ISAs, and I'm sure this is what you meant (and is addressed in ozaz's post).
|
|
IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 3,018
|
Post by IFISAcava on May 12, 2017 7:03:18 GMT
I don't think that would work. You can only subscribe this year's £20k to a 2017/18 ISA (or more than one if different types). Previous year's ISAs can be transferred in part or in full to new accounts that you happen to open in this year, but they are still previous year's ISAs. Not sure I understand why that wouldn't work. I was under the impression that you could pay your allowance into a previous year ISA and that transferring money from that ISA would not be considered as a subscription. Is it not possible to do both during the same tax year? You can't contribute to a previous years ISA. That's the reason for the pre-April 5 rush each year.
|
|
IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 3,018
|
Post by IFISAcava on May 12, 2017 7:06:23 GMT
Does this mean that if we want to spread our allowance across multiple p2p platforms then the best approach is to transfer 20k from other ISA(s) to new IFISAs accounts then pay 20k into the old ISA account(s)? During 17/18 my plan is to fund all my IFISAs and S&S ISAs with multiple partial transfers from previous year subscriptions held in my cash ISA. I plan to almost fully drain my cash ISA of its previous year subscriptions. Before the end of 17/18 I will subscribe as much as I can to my cash ISA and then early 18/19 again redistribute my previous years cash subscription (which will at that time include the 17/18 cash subscription) via partial transfer to multiple IFISAs and S&S ISAs. Will need to be careful I always have enough of a cash emergency fund as it will be distributed and dynamic rather than just parked long-term in a cash ISA as I have been doing in the past. This will include non-ISA accounts like my high interest current accounts and high interest regular savers maturing at various times during the year. This is indeed the way to diversify IFISA investments across platforms.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,333
Likes: 11,552
|
Post by ilmoro on May 12, 2017 7:28:51 GMT
Not sure I understand why that wouldn't work. I was under the impression that you could pay your allowance into a previous year ISA and that transferring money from that ISA would not be considered as a subscription. Is it not possible to do both during the same tax year? You can't contribute to a previous years ISA. That's the reason for the pre-April 5 rush each year. As it reads that statement isnt correct. You can subscribe current year funds to a previous year ISA providing you havent already subscribed to an ISA of that type in the current year but they remain current year subscriptions. The ISA would contain current year subscriptions which could only be transferred to another ISA of the same type as a whole (including any interest/earnings on those funds) and previous year subscriptions which could be transferred in as many parts as you like to as many ISA you wanted. You could transfer part of current year subscriptions to an ISA of a different type providing you hadnt subscribed to a different ISA of that type in the current year. ISA guidance provides rules for managers deternining what are current and previous year subscribtions held within the same ISA, particurlarly in cases where it isnt immediately clear eg investments over sucessive years in the same equity.
|
|
IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 3,018
|
Post by IFISAcava on May 12, 2017 7:54:51 GMT
You can't contribute to a previous years ISA. That's the reason for the pre-April 5 rush each year. As it reads that statement isnt correct. You can subscribe current year funds to a previous year ISA providing you havent already subscribed to an ISA of that type in the current year but they remain current year subscriptions. The ISA would contain current year subscriptions which could only be transferred to another ISA of the same type as a whole (including any interest/earnings on those funds) and previous year subscriptions which could be transferred in as many parts as you like to as many ISA you wanted. You could transfer part of current year subscriptions to an ISA of a different type providing you hadnt subscribed to a different ISA of that type in the current year. ISA guidance provides rules for managers deternining what are current and previous year subscribtions held within the same ISA, particurlarly in cases where it isnt immediately clear eg investments over sucessive years in the same equity. Agree with the clarification - but terminology can differ here Some managers (my S&S for example) open a new ISA for you each tax year rather than keep adding to a general multi year ISA. It only becomes a mixed years ISA if transferred.
|
|
littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 1,862
|
Post by littleoldlady on May 12, 2017 8:42:39 GMT
One thing is certain - it's complicated!
Would this help? Instead of thinking in terms of current year's and previous year's ISAs think in terms of current year's and previous year's subscriptions. The following relates to each type separately. So typically one would hold several ISAs of a particular type:
Some might hold only previous year's subs and these could be transferred without restriction.
One might contain only the current year's sub and could only be transferred as a whole.
One might contain both past year's and current year's subs. These was either an account opened in a previous year to which funds have been added in the current year or an account opened in the current year to which funds from previous years have been transferred. The past years element could be transferred in whole or in part but the current years element only in full.
You cannot add funds from the current year's allowance to more than one account (of the same type) regardless of when it was opened.
Is that right?
|
|
|
|
Post by robberbaron on May 13, 2017 12:50:19 GMT
You can't contribute to a previous years ISA. That's the reason for the pre-April 5 rush each year. You can as I've done it many times and previous year ISA providers will typically try to get you to invest your current year subscription into the same account. I believe the reason for the pre-April 5 rush is that you lose your current year subscription if you don't use it but you don't have to open a new ISA.
|
|
archie
Posts: 1,866
Likes: 1,861
|
Post by archie on May 13, 2017 12:58:33 GMT
You can't contribute to a previous years ISA. That's the reason for the pre-April 5 rush each year. You can as I've done it many times and previous year ISA providers will typically try to get you to invest your current year subscription into the same account. I believe the reason for the pre-April 5 rush is that you lose your current year subscription if you don't use it but you don't have to open a new ISA. That's not investing in a previous year ISA though, the holding account may be the same but any money subscribed counts as part of the current year subscription.
|
|
|
|
Post by robberbaron on May 14, 2017 15:56:58 GMT
You can as I've done it many times and previous year ISA providers will typically try to get you to invest your current year subscription into the same account. I believe the reason for the pre-April 5 rush is that you lose your current year subscription if you don't use it but you don't have to open a new ISA. That's not investing in a previous year ISA though, the holding account may be the same but any money subscribed counts as part of the current year subscription. I am not looking to make a previous year subscription though. The question was whether or not we could split our platform risk by opening multiple IFISA this tax year, fund them with money transferred from S&S ISA from previous years and top-up the S&S ISA with the current year subscription. At the end of the day this should be equivalent to spreading your current year subscription across multiple platforms while staying within the ISA rules. I believe ozaz and others have answered this question with the affirmative.
|
|
archie
Posts: 1,866
Likes: 1,861
|
Post by archie on May 14, 2017 17:06:15 GMT
That's not investing in a previous year ISA though, the holding account may be the same but any money subscribed counts as part of the current year subscription. I am not looking to make a previous year subscription though. The question was whether or not we could split our platform risk by opening multiple IFISA this tax year, fund them with money transferred from S&S ISA from previous years and top-up the S&S ISA with the current year subscription. At the end of the day this should be equivalent to spreading your current year subscription across multiple platforms while staying within the ISA rules. I believe ozaz and others have answered this question with the affirmative. In principle yes if the S&S ISA allows it, all transfers would be in cash.
|
|
|
|
Post by andrewcfa on May 19, 2017 10:56:41 GMT
Thank you all for such an active discussion. We have updated the guide slightly based on the comments, but I did stick with the 'Ultimate' part ilmoro  . Please feel free to view the new version, even with the minor amendments. |
|
. Please feel free to view the new version, even with the minor amendments.