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Post by davee39 on Jun 6, 2014 11:22:24 GMT
This is an interesting relist (and re-think)
1) It appears a single bidder went for £129.8k at 14%, which is clever since the loan is for £125k.
2) The Q&A say there is a mistake on the first page security listing. Is it wise to make an error and then countermand it later in the small print?
3) Why not a fixed price 5 yr mortgage (Presumably easy enough to fill, and saves the 2% bribe).
As to the single bidder, in all fairness why not, but equally why fiddle around at 14% when the loan is heading towards MBR as a secured A+
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chrisf
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Post by chrisf on Jun 6, 2014 11:32:47 GMT
As soon as I read this post I knew who it was going to be, and yes, it was. Anyone have any ideas what he is up to? All I can think of is he tries to stop auto-bidders who bid MBR in the hope that the the rate will end up slightly higher? It's not as if the 14.0's are ever going to fly, and no-one buys £960 loan parts to flip anyway.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Jun 6, 2014 11:39:51 GMT
I wonder why anyone bids MBR on even A+ loans (except maybe 12 month loans). The rate is 5% after fees; even Zopa beats that.  |
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 6, 2014 15:02:34 GMT
As soon as I read this post I knew who it was going to be, and yes, it was. Anyone have any ideas what he is up to? All I can think of is he tries to stop auto-bidders who bid MBR in the hope that the the rate will end up slightly higher? It's not as if the 14.0's are ever going to fly, and no-one buys £960 loan parts to flip anyway. I cannot understand the purpose of the bids. If the borrower takes the loan as soon as it is 100% full then there is a big benefit but no-one is going to do that on an A+ loan without looking at the average rate. It will make no difference to autobidders. Perhaps we need to think laterally. Perhaps he/she is testing a new bid-bot and expects the money returned soon. Many others have piled in after. I will have a look next Friday.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 6, 2014 15:42:38 GMT
I think it's a bidbot running an artificial stupidity algorithm .. Also ignoring FCs attempts to limit individual participation on any loan to 20% of the total.. It's always £960 parts, all it can bid, and they're always knocked out. Weird!!!
I try to ignore it .. Otherwise it'd look like ridiculous bid rates were taking place, but actually once knocked out they are never rebid as far as I can tell.
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chrisf
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Post by chrisf on Jun 6, 2014 18:08:10 GMT
As soon as I read this post I knew who it was going to be, and yes, it was. Anyone have any ideas what he is up to? All I can think of is he tries to stop auto-bidders who bid MBR in the hope that the the rate will end up slightly higher? It's not as if the 14.0's are ever going to fly, and no-one buys £960 loan parts to flip anyway. I cannot understand the purpose of the bids. If the borrower takes the loan as soon as it is 100% full then there is a big benefit but no-one is going to do that on an A+ loan without looking at the average rate. It will make no difference to autobidders. Perhaps we need to think laterally. Perhaps he/she is testing a new bid-bot and expects the money returned soon. Many others have piled in after. I will have a look next Friday. Just a point of order on 'It will make no difference to autobidders.': When Ta***ii bids a load of £960's to fill an auction very soon after it appears, this means that the MBR autobidders won't bid on this one, they'll go for another auction with less than 100% fill. Hence the auction in question, 6415, only having £680 at MBR. Usually close to 10% of an auction is filled by MBR bids (this one is nearer 0.5%). P.S. Good to see a 20+ new listings day, must be the first for a couple of months?
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 6, 2014 19:06:39 GMT
That is certainly an effect of ta******'s bidding, but what's the point .. Unless he is just trying to screw the borrower. It doesn't affect the marginal rates at the top, and I see no further bids from him (at least not under that account name) .. I mean maybe he just hopes one day an auction will close early and he'll have a ton in at 14% .. But it hasn't happened yet, as far as I know. And why £960?? And what's all this loose cash doing between lunges??
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 6, 2014 19:59:17 GMT
I cannot understand the purpose of the bids. If the borrower takes the loan as soon as it is 100% full then there is a big benefit but no-one is going to do that on an A+ loan without looking at the average rate. It will make no difference to autobidders. ... Just a point of order on 'It will make no difference to autobidders.': When Ta***ii bids a load of £960's to fill an auction very soon after it appears, this means that the MBR autobidders won't bid on this one, they'll go for another auction with less than 100% fill. Hence the auction in question, 6415, only having £680 at MBR. Usually close to 10% of an auction is filled by MBR bids (this one is nearer 0.5%). ... You are right. I was thinking of the individual bids and forgetting the Autobid priority. Ideally our 14% bidder would want to have half the loan with the rest going to Autobidders at MBR (there is still a limit on Autobid at MBR?). Then the average rate is 10% and it could get taken. The trouble is that other manual bidders would want a share. Maybe the strategy is to shut out the autobidders, let the other manual bidders take it down without competition, and then swoop in at the end with flippable bids, if the rate is ok. There is no point in spending a week bidding it down, that defeats the objective.
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chrisf
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Post by chrisf on Jun 6, 2014 20:00:43 GMT
T***sii has definitely landed an early or two, I've been watching out for his £960 loadings and always go 0.1% lower, as from the borrowers perspective, the big pile at a single rate means the rattling-down of the average rate is buffered. They may see their average rate hardly change from, say, live day 2 to day 4, so be more inclined to take-the-money-and-run. It has worked a few times. I see plenty of GSV bids at the same 0.1% lower rate so I am sure you have had the same thought. I haven't got the TOI to check the secondary market for parts but I am pretty sure I have seen some of those 960's being passed on (maybe we mostly filter at <50-ish so don't see them?)
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 6, 2014 20:29:51 GMT
You should see plenty (max30) GSV bids in everything, at the top rate and/or 0.1% below. 8>. Until the rate gets uninteresting, anyway. But not at £960, and not monopolising any auction.
P.s I Wonder if FC are aware their autobid allocation is subject to gaming in this way? I guess it comes with the algorithm trying to balance the % funded on all loans, rather than trying to balance the amount, or %age, which autobid puts in. Another instance of unintended side effects?
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 10, 2014 6:59:32 GMT
Ah, I finally saw why always £960 .. It's so you can mark it up +3%, add interest, and still sell for <£1000. I can't imagine a very active secondary market for £1000 loan parts though, or that £1040 would break the camel's back. Anyway, no sign of tal**** left in this one, just a screwed up rate for the poor borrower.
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sl125
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Post by sl125 on Jun 11, 2014 15:01:00 GMT
Well, it looks as if the tall one has got well over £50k of 6477, all in £960 chunks. It'll be interesting to see what he/she does with them on the secondary market.
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wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Jun 11, 2014 15:08:23 GMT
He/she/it is welcome to it.
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Post by chielamangus on Jun 11, 2014 16:35:28 GMT
Amazing. Not much into FC at the moment but I have just checked out what is going on here and saw the comments on 6477. So whipped over to FC to give this application the once-over. I can't see any motivation for lending on it except for a quick resale. But £960 lots would be difficult to shift, surely. Methinks there is either a madman or genius out there.
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Jun 13, 2014 18:05:07 GMT
2) The Q&A say there is a mistake on the first page security listing. Is it wise to make an error and then countermand it later in the small print? It says :- "Please note: this loan request is secured by a 1st Charge on the target property. In the Key Information tab it states that it is backed by 'all asset security', this is a display error and should be ignored." It's not a display error, it's another "we've displayed wrong information and WILL NOT CHANGE IT. Thanks, FC" error. As ZOPA's forum has an abbreviations guide for newbies, for O/LO, RR, TGLA, Fishing etc ... can we start an FC-speak dictionary/phrase book, for newbies ... ? We have "display errors" for "we put misleading information on the loan pitch", "the number of days late is sometimes a work of fiction and we won't investigate, for weeks" etc. We have "rounding errors" for "our maths is so bizarre and we can't explain it", and "of course your account doesn't balance exactly, why would it?" We have "browser issues" for "our website/server doesn't work, again" We have "banking issue" for "we didn't collect the direct debit again, but want to make it sound like the borrower's fault" We have features that are in "beta" which really means "alpha or unfinished" We should be long past "teething issues" now. They don't seem to be going away, but the excuses are getting more inventive. So I guess that's ... what's the word for progress, but backwards?
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