Imothep
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Post by Imothep on Aug 21, 2018 19:04:41 GMT
Approved Full PP for 38 apartments. Onerous pre-demolition conditions met (at purchasers expense). Value enhancing Demolition completed (at purchasers expense).
So why 'a lemon'?
I personally don't think this property is so bad. But: 1) It is worth nowhere near the valuation estimate of 3.2M (and this is an FS constant to overvalue properties, which clearly increses the default rates). 2) It has had an history of strange happenings (contract initially exchanged and no completion, second purcharsers coming in and not closing, too many interests from the neighbours to have the old cinema removed from their skyline) and FS late or not good actions. respectfully mr grumbler, FS and every other financial institution / company / lender do not value properties , RICS surveyors do. I appreciate that RICS surveyors have a bad rub on here as well but thags the facts , the don’t value em. LTV , GDV , %tage of cost , yes, that’s down to the lender but not the current value / GdV etc
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 23, 2018 6:45:56 GMT
I guess this one did not complete yesterday - first Monday, then yesterday now worst case today - if it does not complete today then personally I will lose 100% confidence that this one will avoid going to auction and worse my investment will take a haircut...prove me wrong FS!
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lobster
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Post by lobster on Aug 23, 2018 7:02:57 GMT
respectfully mr grumbler, FS and every other financial institution / company / lender do not value properties , RICS surveyors do. I appreciate that RICS surveyors have a bad rub on here as well but thags the facts , the don’t value em. LTV , GDV , %tage of cost , yes, that’s down to the lender but not the current value / GdV etc Is there anything to prevent FS , or any lender, from authorising multiple RICS valuations, and then simply cherry picking the highest ?
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micky
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Post by micky on Aug 23, 2018 9:11:08 GMT
I guess this one did not complete yesterday - first Monday, then yesterday now worst case today - if it does not complete today then personally I will lose 100% confidence that this one will avoid going to auction and worse my investment will take a haircut...prove me wrong FS! I fear not, this mornings update- Hi. Have you heard if the <redacted> Cinema is definitely completing today as per recent update? 'We had a note from the new funder yesterday to say that there were still a few minor things to sort but they were confident that it would complete by the end of the week. They are aware that the property is listed for auction on the 6th September.'
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 23, 2018 11:22:07 GMT
I am with the grumbler and I don't mean the wife...
and worse!
Neither do I - granted there may be a simple explanation but damned if I can see it.
Considering this one was "all systems go" in May and then Monday and then yesterday and then today at worst and now tomorrow. This is a joke. As I said my solicitor would simply not be in this shambles - if you want to buy from me you exchange and you pay a deposit with a penalty clause for messing me about if you are stupid enough to try. When I buy my solicitor then does all the legal checks and sorts out any legal nasties, we exchange, she finalises any snagettes and then gives me a definitive completion date and that's it! How do we know this one is going to complete if there are issues to sort out ? In my book we don't.
The developers for the flats are very big players and seem to know exactly what they are doing - to them this demolition is small change and I wonder if they are following this one with interest if you know what I mean. I guess the best result for them is that the restriction is lifted, the land is left flat giving their nice retirement flats a lovely view over L*******...
I realise the below may be out of date but last week I read from the planning office
wonder if this one will complete on Friday - I have my doubts and I wonder if the "purchasers" are playing for time whilst the restriction is lifted.
Of course somebody could have done a lot of research and is being extremely cute - time will tell...
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Imothep
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Post by Imothep on Aug 23, 2018 11:34:50 GMT
respectfully mr grumbler, FS and every other financial institution / company / lender do not value properties , RICS surveyors do. I appreciate that RICS surveyors have a bad rub on here as well but thags the facts , the don’t value em. LTV , GDV , %tage of cost , yes, that’s down to the lender but not the current value / GdV etc Is there anything to prevent FS , or any lender, from authorising multiple RICS valuations, and then simply cherry picking the highest ? hi cherry, the borrower pays for the valuation , they are expensive , normally you choose from 3 quotes, the lender then instructs with the terms of reference they require, the borrower then meets the valuer and the process starts, so no, a borrower would never pay for 3 , never .....
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 23, 2018 11:40:49 GMT
I valuations varied by more than 10-15% something is way wrong
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 23, 2018 12:06:17 GMT
and never a conflict of interest....
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Imothep
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Post by Imothep on Aug 23, 2018 17:28:14 GMT
and never a conflict of interest.... what can you do ? lenders need it valued , clearly the borrower needs to be involved in that process, the valuer needs to shown the site, talked through the deal, build budget , exit , etc . I have said before that i’m a developer , i also of course borrow money , lots of it , from mainstream , challengers and yes p2p, i have never been asked, never , by a valuer how much do i want it to value at. i’ve paid for at least 4 redbooks in the last 12 months ( 10k ish ) where the valuer has disagreed with my development assessment and that deal has not gone through to be funded . that is obviously expensive and not good for me , it’s overhead and a deal lost but that’s the way it is. the system is not perfect but i’m sorry , valuer’s , at least the ones i use will NOT value something up at the behest of the borrower or the financial institution ... it just simply doesn’t work that way. i’m not saying they get it right all the time , it’s of course subjective , comparables are just that , but, it’s better than a funding manager popping out to a site and sticking his finger in the air and having a decent guess. i hope this insight is helpful .
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 23, 2018 18:21:31 GMT
maybe the lender could do the valuation at the borrower's expense - I don't think pawn shops accept valuations from the borrower? I don't need yet another lecture about how the building industry work thanks but there again all my developments are now funded from my cash reserves - seen too many "house of cards" collapse - not least the string of bust developers from the excellent mrclondon DD...and the bust FS developments of which I seem to recall Wimbledon, Knaresborough etc not that there won't be many more.
FS is clearly the port of last resort for many developers (not all I accept) who have been turned down by the banks and may possibly explain the ever growing list of problematic property loans.
I was once a member of Rotary so I know exactly how some fine upstanding virtuous members of the public actually operate...
I think it is fair to say the Whitehaven loan valuation was a tincy-wincy bit inaccurate.
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Imothep
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Post by Imothep on Aug 23, 2018 19:33:01 GMT
maybe the lender could do the valuation at the borrower's expense - I don't think pawn shops accept valuations from the borrower? I don't need yet another lecture about how the building industry work thanks but there again all my developments are now funded from my cash reserves - seen too many "house of cards" collapse - not least the string of bust developers from the excellent mrclondon DD...and the bust FS developments of which I seem to recall Wimbledon, Knaresborough etc not that there won't be many more. FS is clearly the port of last resort for many developers (not all I accept) who have been turned down by the banks and may possibly explain the ever growing list of problematic property loans. I was once a member of Rotary so I know exactly how some fine upstanding virtuous members of the public actually operate... I think it is fair to say the Whitehaven loan was a tincy-wincy bit inaccurate. but that is what happens, the lender instructs the valuation at the borrowers expense, but i guess you would know that being a developer .. good for you having the cash reserves to fund your own stuff, unfortunately not quite as easy in london on small margins with heavy buy ins...
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Aug 23, 2018 19:43:37 GMT
" valuer’s , at least the ones i use will NOT value something up at the behest of the borrower or the financial institution .." - In that case, PLEASE put them in touch with The Platforms immediately Imothep ! If you haven't come across such Valuers it doesn't mean of course that they don't exist. I recall someone on here was compiling a list of Valuers associated with the myriad dodgier loans and there was some, errrrr, "correlation"? Either way, this is business and I for one am not totally naive. It DOES go on, of course it does.
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Post by Proptechfish on Aug 23, 2018 19:46:38 GMT
I actually know this building, i've walked past it many times and i can confirm it actually exists at least ...
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Imothep
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Post by Imothep on Aug 23, 2018 19:51:30 GMT
" valuer’s , at least the ones i use will NOT value something up at the behest of the borrower or the financial institution .." - In that case, PLEASE put them in touch with The Platforms immediately Imothep ! If you haven't come across such Valuers it doesn't mean of course that they don't exist. I recall someone on here was compiling a list of Valuers associated with the myriad dodgier loans and there was some, errrrr, "correlation"? Either way, this is business and I for one am not totally naive. It DOES go on, of course it does. its a fair point ozboy, i’m sure it does, there are bad apples everywhere , i’m just saying i havnt seen it... if anything in the last few years it has been more of an argument on the gdv .. and that’s on ever val ive paid for , just my experience , sure its not everyone’s ... edit - sorry just to clarify , normally the lender gives me a choice of three RICS practices , and you choose one , i of course go for the cheapest , ive never been able to specify a preferred valuer , for obvious reasons !
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 24, 2018 7:15:31 GMT
Shame you can't say the same for the Whitehaven timber frame.
However as you are local could you comment on the valuation of this site - my very crude and superficial research indicated nothing like the FS valuation - looks a lovely town - I will have to visit.
Thanks a lot
Off to work now - wonder if this one will have completed when I return...
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