aj
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Post by aj on Sept 5, 2018 8:22:54 GMT
My theory is we get to tomorrows auction and FS will have failed to do something properly so the auction cannot go ahead. Following this failure, more delays and excuses abound.
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micky
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Post by micky on Sept 5, 2018 8:34:41 GMT
You well be right aj but I will just hang on to being optimistic for today  |
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woodland
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Post by woodland on Sept 5, 2018 8:44:51 GMT
Whatever happens FS need to make sure that this does not go to auction tomorrow. I cannot see how this will achieve the best value for lenders when there are so many administrative cobwebs hanging over this. The only people bidding will be the same buyers who look like have failed to complete over the last few weeks.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 5, 2018 9:10:31 GMT
micky, aj and trevor have reasonable predictions but they can't all be right.., we are talking about £2m here and FS have not even been able to clarify what on earth is happening here so we have to speculate - ridiculous! This was due to have completed nearly 4 months ago and now we are 24hrs from the start of the auction.
My tuppence is that we will get "due to an unexpected/unforeseen problem" this one will go to auction and once there it won't sell - there you go my colours nailed onto the mast and for the sake of my nibble and fellow investors I hope I am wrong...if I had £300K in this one the excitement would be too much for me!
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empirica
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Post by empirica on Sept 5, 2018 9:33:57 GMT
Do you think FS will actually go through with the auction? I think it's clear to all concerned that the auction was a threat to hurry the buyer up. Has their bluff been called? Isn't the priority question: can FS actually go through with the auction? I can't see anything in the updates which says they have legal control of the asset _ no LPAs / Receivers / Administrators / etc _ and if they haven't, what is to prevent the borrower from pulling it ahead of the auction? at the other place listing some legal documents. I'm no not qualified to comment on just how 'tight' FS' control over the asset is, but it seems to this layperson that any decision to pull would be FS' alone.
Hopefully _ for those in it _ you'll never find out. 
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micky
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Post by micky on Sept 5, 2018 12:28:38 GMT
FS have just updated me '-Thank you for your patience. I have been informed that it is likely to complete today and there should be some further information added to the loan page once it has completed.
My question-If it does not complete today then FS are vulnerable to further problems similar to what the borrower has caused in the past. Investors are very concerned about these games that have been played. Will it go to auction?
Reply- At this moment in time it is still booked into the auction. I will pass your comments onto the management team.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 5, 2018 12:31:40 GMT
There are several amendments to the legal pack download for this one - anybody want full details then please PM me. Very busy as during my lunch break but the main points seems to be : ( please don't take these as gospel as I am not a lawyer).
1) the council want a tad under £200K to fund affordable housing if the development is likely to realise over 15% profit
2) vat is payable on this transaction - I presume this means the hammer price ? Well that's only £400K on £2m
3) transfers are included - what's going on here - I can guess but out of my depth here unlike some other forum members
Would you like a laugh - read the legal pack and get the current owner and then look him up on companies house and see just how much money his business is worth! This may be related to point 3
I was worried that we were not getting the full story before I read the latest legal pack - I am even more worried now!
I am now puzzled as to whom actually owns this damn plot - maybe I am misunderstanding the legal gubbins - whatever hopefully somebody with the relevant expertise can comment
I thank you.
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Sept 5, 2018 12:40:28 GMT
FS have just updated me '-Thank you for your patience. I have been informed that it is likely to complete today and there should be some further information added to the loan page once it has completed. My question-If it does not complete today then FS are vulnerable to further problems similar to what the borrower has caused in the past. Investors are very concerned about these games that have been played. Will it go to auction? Reply- At this moment in time it is still booked into the auction. I will pass your comments onto the management team. ![]() 
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micky
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Post by micky on Sept 5, 2018 13:01:15 GMT
FS have just updated me '-Thank you for your patience. I have been informed that it is likely to complete today and there should be some further information added to the loan page once it has completed. My question-If it does not complete today then FS are vulnerable to further problems similar to what the borrower has caused in the past. Investors are very concerned about these games that have been played. Will it go to auction? Reply- At this moment in time it is still booked into the auction. I will pass your comments onto the management team. ![]() Good work adrian77, hopefully by the end of the day none of this will matter!
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Sept 5, 2018 16:18:39 GMT
Well unless something significant materialises this evening..it looks like the gavel is going to decide our fate...or not  |
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 5, 2018 16:47:45 GMT
maybe!
I say maybe because I have been looking at the auction legal packs - as per an earlier post the "current" owner, lets call him Mr Stan lee Cap (he's from HK) had before he bought this dream factory a NBV of £60-70K (not exact figure for privacy) and long term creditors of well over £800K. However I have read the latest title and who is denoted on the transfer title as transferor? "Stan the Cap" you shout - wrong - guess again - yes FS!
And who is the transferee - correct Mr Blank
Looks to me as FS have repossessed this one - surely I am wrong as they would have told us?
I wonder if FS projected returns would be affected if this was declared as defaulted?
I have looked at what Stan the man paid for this development and compared it to the FS valuation - the latter is over £1m or 50% higher - nice business if you can get it but clearly this chap can't. Actually I think he paid way over the odds for it.
Thinking about this ; if FS are the owner then I think it is inside the realms of probability that the purchaser might possibly suspect this is a a fire-sale and make an appropiate offer - just a thought.
Surely they can't complete tomorrow morning now and phone the auction house to cancel?
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empirica
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Post by empirica on Sept 5, 2018 17:12:46 GMT
maybe! I say maybe because I have been looking at the auction legal packs - as per an earlier post the "current" owner, lets call him Mr Stan lee Cap (he's from HK) had before he bought this dream factory a NBV of £60-70K (not exact figure for privacy) and long term creditors of well over £800K. However I have read the latest title and who is denoted on the transfer title as transferor? "Stan the Cap" you shout - wrong - guess again - yes FS! And who is the transferee - correct Mr Blank Looks to me as FS have repossessed this one - surely I am wrong as they would have told us? I wonder if FS projected returns would be affected if this was declared as defaulted? I have looked at what Stan the man paid for this development and compared it to the FS valuation - the latter is over £1m or 50% higher - nice business if you can get it but clearly this chap can't. Actually I think he paid way over the odds for it. Thinking about this ; if FS are the owner then I think it is inside the realms of probability that the purchaser might possibly suspect this is a a fire-sale and make an appropriate offer - just a thought. Surely they can't complete tomorrow morning now and phone the auction house to cancel?
Seems to this layperson that FS have enforced their rights under the loan agreement and on that basis have placed the asset into auction, but I note section 10 of the TR2 document. It states "The transferor transfers with NO TITLE GUARANTEED" which suggest to me they don't 'own' the asset lock, stock and barrel.
As for 'value' _ it's worth what it sells for. If the deal completes as planned everyone will have made some cash (probably not as much as the borrower would have liked, but ... ) including FS investors. If it doesn't, everyone is likely to have lost _ just a question of (risk calculated) degree.
Still time for it not to be an issue _ the hammer has fallen yet!
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 5, 2018 18:59:16 GMT
granted I am losing my marbles but I can't see this - I see two options but neither one is checked. However I am not impressed that all has been quiet since Monday so I guess the auction looms...there was I hoping for a 100% nibble recovery but time yet?
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bg
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Post by bg on Sept 5, 2018 19:06:12 GMT
granted I am losing my marbles but I can't see this - I see two options but neither one is checked. However I am not impressed that all has been quiet since Monday so I guess the auction looms...there was I hoping for a 100% nibble recovery but time yet? Have faith! I'm sure we will see full recovery tomorrow.
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micky
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Post by micky on Sept 5, 2018 19:41:22 GMT
I'm still holding onto a glimmer of hope (rather than faith) that FS will do it. However, their lack of updates, as they promised several times this week is extremely disappointing.
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