sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Sept 26, 2019 11:24:13 GMT
“We understand that a purchase for the building has been agreed at £4,549,761 plus an additional £350,000 for the Freehold interest”. That’s what the VR dated November 2017, on which many will have based their investment decision, stated. The same VR says the estimated cost of completion per flat is £10,000. Now it seems the “asset” is being marketed for less than £1 million. Rather than giving it away for a paltry sum, if FS truly has any backers and any money behind it then surely this is the time to step in and complete the project and realise its true value? sundown I would like to point out that the council sold the building and freehold for a mere £375,000 at auction - this is based on my own research from land registry documents. The last VR that was published stated a freehold market value of £3,500,000 (the higher £4,500,000 was the GDV assuming completion, which clearly did not happen). We should base our criticism on the £3.5mil number but again, this is still ten times higher than what the borrower paid for it. The first valuation had a stated market value of £1,500,000 and there is no discernible explanation of how the asset appreciated by two million pounds with the limited and incomplete level of refurbishments that were carried out. RICS claim, surely! If the building ends up selling for a low seven-figure sum, that would be an outcome comparable to the old school/D*** disaster where the asset sold for a third of the valuation. petrichory Actually, there was a later VR that valued the building at £4.17m and outlined the costs to complete. This VR is only available on tranches that renewed after 14th March 2018.
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Sept 26, 2019 11:53:20 GMT
over to you FS. stop the speculation on here and give us your best open and honest update as to what the situation is here.
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bulletbill
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Post by bulletbill on Sept 26, 2019 19:25:28 GMT
over to you FS. stop the speculation on here and give us your best open and honest update as to what the situation is here. Fat chance of that happening..... ever. “FS” and “open and honest” in the same sentence, wishful thinking.
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rs
Member of DD Central
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Post by rs on Sept 27, 2019 8:11:46 GMT
over to you FS. stop the speculation on here and give us your best open and honest update as to what the situation is here. Fat chance of that happening..... ever. “FS” and “open and honest” in the same sentence, wishful thinking. If the buyer doesn't complete the purchase of this for whatever reason, it's probably best the particular problems or problems are not publically disclosed by FS.
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rocky1
Member of DD Central
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Post by rocky1 on Sept 27, 2019 8:56:05 GMT
What ever the outcome is a little email to the investors in this farce letting us know what is going on would not go amiss.come on FS scratch your bloody heads and come up with something to say to kick it down the road for the next few months/years.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Sept 27, 2019 11:36:04 GMT
Updates on site. In short, looks like full repayment of capital and interest for 1st facility, part repayment of capital (unspecified) of 2nd facility (development tranches), and nowt for the supplementals after that*. Assuming, I should say, that it does complete as forecast in 4-6 weeks.
This is a loan btw where the very top ranking facility and the dregs paid the same interest rate - ridiculous.
*pending further recovery, naturally.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Sept 27, 2019 11:43:40 GMT
I expect opportunist investors follow web-sites such as this in order to identify target opportunities. I expect some even post here to further depress the value of the security. There are certainly a handful of posters that fit the criteria.
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Post by defaultinator5000 on Sept 27, 2019 12:23:58 GMT
Right, so we received the same update for several loans which all clearly have the same borrower but that was not disclosed to us lenders when we made the decision to invest. And, surprise surprise, all of them had a grossly overvalued security and will result in massive losses for the lenders. Surely this constitues a case of misselling as we were not properly informed of the risks involved.
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Sept 27, 2019 12:31:27 GMT
Right, so we received the same update for several loans which all clearly have the same borrower but that was not disclosed to us lenders when we made the decision to invest. And, surprise surprise, all of them had a grossly overvalued security and will result in massive losses for the lenders. Surely this constitues a case of misselling as we were not properly informed of the risks involved. Write an official compliant. They likely won't answer, but you can write anyway. This new update makes it look like all the other updates never happened at all! Just " oh, we have a buyer! That's what they have been telling up for months, we were waiting for completion, remember FS? On a selfish note if this pays all capital and interest on the priority loan it gets me out of FS with most of my shirt intact, commiserations to the lower ranking charge holders but then we knew you didn't have a cat in hell in hells chance all along.
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Sept 27, 2019 12:32:44 GMT
Right, so we received the same update for several loans which all clearly have the same borrower but that was not disclosed to us lenders when we made the decision to invest. And, surprise surprise, all of them had a grossly overvalued security and will result in massive losses for the lenders. Surely this constitues a case of misselling as we were not properly informed of the risks involved. Welcome to The Wonderful (Fantasy) World of FS! Where the only losers are YOU.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 27, 2019 13:09:15 GMT
It looks to me as if this loan is only going to cover the first charge of £575K - amazing!
If my maths are correct the absolute maximum this one will realise is £575K plus 2 years interest say £800K plus £1.5m second charge= £2.3m which is a tad less than the £4.5m valuation in Nov 2017. From memory a poll put this one as between £0.8m and £1.5m so looks as if the mid-value may well be spot on.
I guess the key question is how much of the second charge £1.5m loan are we going to get (I am in this one)? Hopefully a lot but I am not holding my breath...
There is a reason why this damn unit has not sold - would love to know what it is!
How do we do the latest buyer won't pull out as did the last one (£25K is small beer here) - pound to a penny this buyer knows he has got FS over a barrel and will screw them into the ground - welcome to the real property world FS! I hate to think what security, maintenance, receivers etc etc will cost.
Well guess we will have to wait 6 weeks for the next meaningless update - wonder if we will get the Saturnalia excuse and nothing before 2020? Well I bet that will be a complete waste of time and money and how long will these loans be left open?
I am not exactly a fan of local government but to be fair to Liverpool it looks to me as if the council did exactly the right thing in getting shot of this one.
Genuine sympathy for those in the 3rd and 4th charges and this looks like another 100% loss on the cards to me.
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sarahcount
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Post by sarahcount on Sept 27, 2019 13:16:35 GMT
Right, so we received the same update for several loans which all clearly have the same borrower but that was not disclosed to us lenders when we made the decision to invest. And, surprise surprise, all of them had a grossly overvalued security and will result in massive losses for the lenders. Surely this constitues a case of misselling as we were not properly informed of the risks involved. While I sympathise with anyone suffering losses I'm not sure that the platform are directly responsible for overvalued security where there has been a 'professional' surveyor valuation.
The surveyor and their PI insurers should be in the firing line if their valuation can be proved to have been so grossly overvalued.
But even then bear in mind that many valuations are full of caveats and assumptions. Work on the basis that the development will be finished etc.
It's also not against the law for a developer to work on more than one project at once. Yes this does concentrate risk but not increase it overall. While knowing more about the borrower is always useful I don't recall FS ever promising to let us know that borrowers had other projects on the go together with loans from FS or any other platform / finance provider.
There are many enough failings that FS will have to account for but it doesn't help if we go chasing them for the wrong thing.
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adrian77
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 27, 2019 13:22:08 GMT
totally agree - we still don't know why this one sold so cheaply - could be a structural problem which the report clearly states has not been checked.
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jonno
Member of DD Central
nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Sept 27, 2019 13:28:07 GMT
It looks to me as if this loan is only going to cover the first charge of £575K - amazing! If my maths are correct the absolute maximum this one will realise is £575K plus 2 years interest say £800K plus £1.5m second charge= £2.3m which is a tad less than the £4.5m valuation in Nov 2017. From memory a poll put this one as between £0.8m and £1.5m so looks as if the mid-value may well be spot on. I guess the key question is how much of the second charge £1.5m loan are we going to get (I am in this one)? Hopefully a lot but I am not holding my breath... There is a reason why this damn unit has not sold - would love to know what it is! How do we do the latest buyer won't pull out as did the last one (£25K is small beer here) - pound to a penny this buyer knows he has got FS over a barrel and will screw them into the ground - welcome to the real property world FS! I hate to think what security, maintenance, receivers etc etc will cost. Well guess we will have to wait 6 weeks for the next meaningless update - wonder if we will get the Saturnalia excuse and nothing before 2020? Well I bet that will be a complete waste of time and money and how long will these loans be left open? I am not exactly a fan of local government but to be fair to Liverpool it looks to me as if the council did exactly the right thing in getting shot of this one. Genuine sympathy for those in the 3rd and 4th charges and this looks like another 100% loss on the cards to me. Not massively pertinent, but purely for the purpose of accuracy, this will have been sold by Wirral M.B.C. rather than Liverpool.
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Post by mrclondon on Sept 27, 2019 14:27:54 GMT
Not massively pertinent, but purely for the purpose of accuracy, this will have been sold by Wirral M.B.C. rather than Liverpool. Not massively pertinent, but purely for the purpose of accuracy ... CH records show our borrower bought the property from a large housing association, not from a council. Google reveals that said housing association had explored the cost of demolition a few months prior to selling it. Care is needed with interpretation of the LR records, I think some/most of the anomalies have now been tidied up, but they have been something of a mess.
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