stevio
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Post by stevio on Apr 6, 2017 9:12:38 GMT
(Posting in chat as advised for a better response)
I have a lump sum in a H&L SIPP that I am looking to invest in S&S for about 6-8 months, before cashing out and transferring into another investment. Should it perform better than the other investment, I might leave it there long term. I realize that S&S is a long term investment, but my alternative is to have it sat there as cash.
I was thinking a low cost tracker might be better than simply holding as cash?
Can anyone recommend a low cost Tracker (via H&L)?
Thanks
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 6, 2017 9:28:17 GMT
What are you looking to track?
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Apr 6, 2017 9:28:51 GMT
(Posting in chat as advised for a better response)I have a lump sum in a H&L SIPP that I am looking to invest in S&S for about 6-8 months, before cashing out and transferring into another investment. Should it perform better than the other investment, I might leave it there long term. I realize that S&S is a long term investment, but my alternative is to have it sat there as cash. I was thinking a low cost tracker might be better than simply holding as cash? Can anyone recommend a low cost Tracker (via H&L)? Thanks I'd advise against your overall strategy but if you want an all world tracker the cheapest two are VWRL (vanguard all world) and SWDA (I shares all world). The vanguard one includes emerging markets. If you want a fund then one of the vanguard life strategy funds. It is not inconceivable that shares could drop 20 - 50% over the time frame you are suggesting, so you better be willing to stick by your "might leave it for long term" should that happen.
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Post by dan1 on Apr 6, 2017 9:37:41 GMT
(Posting in chat as advised for a better response)I have a lump sum in a H&L SIPP that I am looking to invest in S&S for about 6-8 months, before cashing out and transferring into another investment. Should it perform better than the other investment, I might leave it there long term. I realize that S&S is a long term investment, but my alternative is to have it sat there as cash. I was thinking a low cost tracker might be better than simply holding as cash? Can anyone recommend a low cost Tracker (via H&L)? Thanks I'd advise against your overall strategy but if you want an all world tracker the cheapest two are VWRL (vanguard all world) and SWDA (I shares all world). The vanguard one includes emerging markets. If you want a fund then one of the vanguard life strategy funds. It is not inconceivable that shares could drop 20 - 50% over the time frame you are suggesting, so you better be willing to stick by your "might leave it for long term" should that happen. Vanguard life strategy has a significant (25% I think) home bias whereas VWRL has no bias (UK probably 6-7%?). Bear (no pun intended) in mind that we've been on a bull run since 2009 and that a 50% drop would be within historical norms. It may be even worse if the pound strengthens at the same time if you hold an all-world tracker, although mitigated to some extent by the foreign earnings of the FTSE 100.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Apr 6, 2017 10:24:52 GMT
I am basically looking for a short term strategy, which could turn into the long term strategy, if it was not favorable to transfer it at the desired time
I was thinking to keep the costs low, so I thought a tracker, due to the low costs
Also I was trying to target better than cash returns, so something above a few % is acceptable
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Apr 6, 2017 10:25:33 GMT
What are you looking to track? Any suggestions?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 6, 2017 11:38:26 GMT
What are you looking to track? Any suggestions? I'm with hazellend in thinking that 6 months is way too short a timeframe to risk sticking it in equities, unless you're happy to risk a sharp correction (-20%? -30%?) in the meantime.
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Apr 6, 2017 20:31:43 GMT
stevioBe careful with Trackers/ ETF's, they can have severe hidden charges. I once tracked the Sugar price using an HL ETF, it turned out to be a futures contract with a rollover cost. When I asked HL why the price was different from the spot price they told me it was down to currency movements because Sugar is dollar denominated. That was misleading, and after several months it became clear that something was very wrong. If you track the FTSE100, you also lose out, because the worst performing shares get kicked out when they are badly performing, but they get put back in when they perform well. That is equivalent to selling at the bottom and buying at the top.
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Post by peerlessperil on Apr 6, 2017 23:00:57 GMT
I wouldn't take equity market risk unless you're able to leave it there for 5 years...at which point the dividend income stands a chance of making up for a market correction. Nobody knows when the markets will reverse, but given the run we've had a correction is more likely than it was 6 months ago (apologies for stating the bleedin' obvious).
I am a fan of equities for the longer-term, and have far more invested in equity markets than in P2P, but they are not appropriate if you need your money back in 6 months time and want to sleep well.
There are plenty of options that allow you to keep your money invested in securities without taking the outright market risk of a stock market tracker.
I presume you've already discounted all the fixed income options (corporate bond funds, high yield etc) so we'll skip those - although there are still some interesting corporate bonds out there despite the risk of rates rising- the WASPS bond secured on the Ricoh stadium is one I am familiar with.
Then there's the various listed vehicles that invest in mortgage debt & similar(i.e.they pay the interest out as dividends): - ICG Longbow (LBOW, managed by Intermediate Capital Group, only invests in senior) - Starwood European Real Estate Finance(SWEF, senior & mezzanine loans, so higher risk) - Real Estate Credit Investments (equity RECI, pref RECP)
Then there's stuff like the student accommodation funds - Empire Student Property (ESP) comes to mind.
You could also look at the more conservative "wealth preservation" investment trusts. The Rothschild investment trust (RIT Capital Partners) is perhaps the best known, but there are many others.
If you want a bit more fun then some of the more solid dividend yield shares could be considered - utilities such as National Grid & Pennon, although most of the traditionally "safer" shares are far from cheap relative to historic norms.
None of these are recommendations - just places to start your own research. QE has ramped up asset values for all yielding assets - bonds, property, equity dividends - so correlation is high and they may all come back down at once if the proverbial hits the fan - but you have some influence over whether you lose 15% or 50%.
On the other hand sitting there in cash as inflation picks up will generate a certain loss in real terms, so all risk is relative.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Apr 7, 2017 7:36:21 GMT
Late to the party but .. (Mod hat off, and 'this is not financial advice' ..)
For tracking (anything) there are now a range of ETFs available with generally pretty low charges .. HL do a lousy job rating ETFs or ITs, but if you head over to Morningstar, they will tell you what they think for free. Personally I would not track the FT100 / high yield companies on a dare (stuffed full of banks, tobacco companies, and 'too big to fail .. oops' outfits), but it's always an option if you like that sort of thing. As usual, you are buying at the wrong time - go back pre-brexit and buy an emerging markets or Asia Pacific tracker or something else denominated in foreign currency. 8>.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Apr 7, 2017 9:38:18 GMT
Depending on your investment size, I'd also suggest looking into a Robo-advisor such as Moneyfarm (fee-free for up to £10k + some handy quidco cashback). Nutmeg do the same, although not fee free. Charges are probably comparable with H+L. As everyone else has said though, 6-8 months is not a suitable time-frame, especially given the bull market.
One other thing, you might want to look into the Halifax Sharedealing service if you DIY. Think it's still just a flat £12.50 per year for an ISA, whilst % charges on providers such as H+L can really mount up depending on the size of your portfolio.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Apr 7, 2017 9:47:05 GMT
I wouldn't take equity market risk unless you're able to leave it there for 5 years...at which point the dividend income stands a chance of making up for a market correction. Nobody knows when the markets will reverse, but given the run we've had a correction is more likely than it was 6 months ago (apologies for stating the bleedin' obvious). I am a fan of equities for the longer-term, and have far more invested in equity markets than in P2P, but they are not appropriate if you need your money back in 6 months time and want to sleep well. There are plenty of options that allow you to keep your money invested in securities without taking the outright market risk of a stock market tracker. I presume you've already discounted all the fixed income options (corporate bond funds, high yield etc) so we'll skip those - although there are still some interesting corporate bonds out there despite the risk of rates rising- the WASPS bond secured on the Ricoh stadium is one I am familiar with. Then there's the various listed vehicles that invest in mortgage debt & similar(i.e.they pay the interest out as dividends): - ICG Longbow (LBOW, managed by Intermediate Capital Group, only invests in senior) - Starwood European Real Estate Finance(SWEF, senior & mezzanine loans, so higher risk) - Real Estate Credit Investments (equity RECI, pref RECP) Then there's stuff like the student accommodation funds - Empire Student Property (ESP) comes to mind. You could also look at the more conservative "wealth preservation" investment trusts. The Rothschild investment trust (RIT Capital Partners) is perhaps the best known, but there are many others. If you want a bit more fun then some of the more solid dividend yield shares could be considered - utilities such as National Grid & Pennon, although most of the traditionally "safer" shares are far from cheap relative to historic norms. None of these are recommendations - just places to start your own research. QE has ramped up asset values for all yielding assets - bonds, property, equity dividends - so correlation is high and they may all come back down at once if the proverbial hits the fan - but you have some influence over whether you lose 15% or 50%. On the other hand sitting there in cash as inflation picks up will generate a certain loss in real terms, so all risk is relative. Could you tell me more about bonds, can I buy those through H&L SIPP?
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Post by peerlessperil on Apr 7, 2017 11:03:01 GMT
Late to the party but .. (Mod hat off, and 'this is not financial advice' ..) For tracking (anything) there are now a range of ETFs available with generally pretty low charges .. HL do a lousy job rating ETFs or ITs, but if you head over to Morningstar, they will tell you what they think for free. Personally I would not track the FT100 / high yield companies on a dare (stuffed full of banks, tobacco companies, and 'too big to fail .. oops' outfits), but it's always an option if you like that sort of thing. As usual, you are buying at the wrong time - go back pre-brexit and buy an emerging markets or Asia Pacific tracker or something else denominated in foreign currency. 8>. I personally avoid ETFs unless I can find no other way of implementing my investment view. Counterparty risk is a major problem, although the devil is in the detail and there are many different flavours. Synthetic ETFs are particularly problematic - you have derivative counterparties to consider, not to mention that the cash you invested to fund the position is often sitting there in a bank - so you find you have an investment with an overlay of bank default risk (and the bank risk can often be heavily correlated with the risk of the underlying investment). Yes, segregated client accounts should help, but nothing is foolproof when a bank goes under. ETFs have their place and the liquidity can be attractive, but there's no extra reward to compensate for the additional counterparty risk. In some ways you are safer expressing the same view via a leveraged route such as a CFD or spread bet - that way you avoid inadvertently putting lots of cash on deposit at a bank you may not like..... Again - these are my personal views and I am not recommending that you start spread betting!
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Post by peerlessperil on Apr 7, 2017 11:20:45 GMT
I've held bonds in ISA accounts and in my SIPP.
Selftrade and AJ Bell both allow you to buy bonds, but the very wide bid/offers do make it impractical for short-term holdings. Dealing costs can eat up a big chunk of your first year's coupon. You have to phone deal and sometimes negotiate. Sorry - can't comment on HL as I don't have an account.
The LSE provides an exhaustive list of retail bonds via their ORB.
www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/retail-bonds/retail-bonds-search.html
Just be very aware that with longer-dated corporate bonds the interest rate risk (as interest rates rise bond prices tend to drop) probably outweighs the credit default risk so make sure you fully understand the concepts of duration and credit spread before you dive in.
There is some useful reading material here:
www.fixedincomeinvestor.co.uk
As ever, no recommendations here, you do your own homework and take your own risks.
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gibmike
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Post by gibmike on Apr 7, 2017 19:41:02 GMT
I have RIT and highly recommend them. It is cheap now (went ex-Div two days ago) and worth the price 18.58 Empiric pays quarterly and yield is currently 5.68%, price is a good 10% below its peak
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