merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Jun 10, 2014 11:14:47 GMT
There seems to be rather a lot of this available on the secondary market at the moment. This would suggest that it has not proved popular with the regular crowd of investors or am I missing something? Been away quite a bit recently so quite possible I am out of touch.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jun 10, 2014 11:22:26 GMT
There seems to be rather a lot of this available on the secondary market at the moment. This would suggest that it has not proved popular with the regular crowd of investors or am I missing something? Been away quite a bit recently so quite possible I am out of touch. It appeared on the AM yesterday with 9.6.14 £461,735 10.6.14 £447,353 IN EDIT 11.6.14 £437,487 12.6.14 £435,187 13.6.14 £431,187 14.6.14 £428,987 15.6.14 £421,877 16.6.14 £404,100 17.6.14 £403,200 18.6.14 £402,350 19.6.14 £295,050 Large Buy. 20.6.14 £295,150 21.6.14 £295,600 22.6.14 £295,500 23.6.14 £295,100 24.6.14 £283,900 25.6.14 £281,800 26.6.14 £278,800
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Post by mrclondon on Jun 10, 2014 12:54:00 GMT
There seems to be rather a lot of this available on the secondary market at the moment. This would suggest that it has not proved popular with the regular crowd of investors or am I missing something? Been away quite a bit recently so quite possible I am out of touch. You need to plod your way through this very long thread .... it is one of the very few AC loans I will not touch.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
Posts: 902
Likes: 302
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Post by merlin on Jun 10, 2014 13:23:56 GMT
There seems to be rather a lot of this available on the secondary market at the moment. This would suggest that it has not proved popular with the regular crowd of investors or am I missing something? Been away quite a bit recently so quite possible I am out of touch. You need to plod your way through this very long thread .... it is one of the very few AC loans I will not touch. Thanks for the steer. It all comes back to me know and my most recent conclusion seems to be about right. My original conclusion on recollection, was that I needed a rate of around 12% to make me take a serious bite. However given the nature of the P2P business you are bound to get one or two like this occasionally.
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Post by andrewholgate on Jun 10, 2014 13:42:42 GMT
Later today I hope to release a mailer that talks a little more about the different types of loans and the different types of security. This should help to clarify a number of questions that were raised about this loan.
A
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Post by mrclondon on Jun 10, 2014 21:53:59 GMT
Later today I hope to release a mailer that talks a little more about the different types of loans and the different types of security. This should help to clarify a number of questions that were raised about this loan. A Andrew, not sure whether an explanation of " Joint & Several Personal Guarantee" would fit within the scope of your proposed document. This phrase is from the new West Midlands loan, and the question I've raised on the loan itself is partly to do with this.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
Posts: 902
Likes: 302
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Post by merlin on Jun 10, 2014 22:16:56 GMT
The reason for my dislike of this offering is that it is not backed by real tangible assets. As far as I am concerned personal guarantees are not worth the paper they are written on even if they are from perceived fat cats with mega bucks in the bank. Only a few days ago a now deceased Russian gentleman of apparent massive wealth was proved to be but a hollow vessel. The so called "old masters" hanging on his walls were all fakes and much of his declared wealth had dissipated. Even when you are dealing with someone proven massive wealth they might just turn round and use some of their money to fight you in Court for eternity in order to avoid paying you. However at 12% or better it might just be worth taking the risk.
Having read the previous thread on this offering I know that my assessment above is shared by quite a few.
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koba
Posts: 45
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Post by koba on Jun 11, 2014 10:09:06 GMT
The reason for my dislike of this offering is that it is not backed by real tangible assets. As far as I am concerned personal guarantees are not worth the paper they are written on even if they are from perceived fat cats with mega bucks in the bank. Only a few days ago a now deceased Russian gentleman of apparent massive wealth was proved to be but a hollow vessel. The so called "old masters" hanging on his walls were all fakes and much of his declared wealth had dissipated. Even when you are dealing with someone proven massive wealth they might just turn round and use some of their money to fight you in Court for eternity in order to avoid paying you. However at 12% or better it might just be worth taking the risk.
Having read the previous thread on this offering I know that my assessment above is shared by quite a few. Interesting also to compare this loan with the Nigerian loan currently on offer. Both are "cash flow" loans (aka poorly secured) with tight pricing. For my money, the Nigerian loan is the more attractive for the possibility of achieving some genuine diversification especially if, like me, you are heavily overweight UK property in one way or another. I am willing to bet that LR would also be hit hard by an economic downturn sufficient to damage a portfolio of 50-70% secured loans. Nigeria, of course, has its own risks but these will certainly be less correlated with the rest of the portfolio. Throw in a superior yield and more compelling investment case (ex the country risk) and there seems no comparison to my mind.
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Post by andrewholgate on Jun 11, 2014 11:36:22 GMT
Later today I hope to release a mailer that talks a little more about the different types of loans and the different types of security. This should help to clarify a number of questions that were raised about this loan. A Andrew, not sure whether an explanation of " Joint & Several Personal Guarantee" would fit within the scope of your proposed document. This phrase is from the new West Midlands loan, and the question I've raised on the loan itself is partly to do with this. Joint and Several PGs. This is where two or more parties agree to guarantee the loan (joint). The several part of it is more complicated. Whilst you may think that the liability is split equally amongst the guarantors, it isn't. Each guarantor could be held liable for the whole amount of the guarantee IF the other guarantors were not able to provide recourse. The lender cannot claim 100% from each party as the recovery would be more than the amount of the PG, but it could claim 100% from one person and 0% from others. As an example, 3 people are party to a J&S PG. the equitable split is 1/3rd each, but the actual split may be 10%/30%/60% or even 0%/0%/100%. When making an assessment of the J&S PG you have to ensure that each party is good for the whole amount of the PG. Does that help?
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Jun 11, 2014 12:38:16 GMT
Andrew, not sure whether an explanation of " Joint & Several Personal Guarantee" would fit within the scope of your proposed document. This phrase is from the new West Midlands loan, and the question I've raised on the loan itself is partly to do with this. Joint and Several PGs. This is where two or more parties agree to guarantee the loan (joint). The several part of it is more complicated. Whilst you may think that the liability is split equally amongst the guarantors, it isn't. Each guarantor could be held liable for the whole amount of the guarantee IF the other guarantors were not able to provide recourse. The lender cannot claim 100% from each party as the recovery would be more than the amount of the PG, but it could claim 100% from one person and 0% from others. As an example, 3 people are party to a J&S PG. the equitable split is 1/3rd each, but the actual split may be 10%/30%/60% or even 0%/0%/100%. When making an assessment of the J&S PG you have to ensure that each party is good for the whole amount of the PG. Does that help? Thanks, yes it does
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Post by andrewholgate on Jun 11, 2014 12:44:34 GMT
Hurrah! Apart from Open University, where else can you get educational services like this??
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markr
Member of DD Central
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Post by markr on Jun 11, 2014 14:43:14 GMT
Thanks Andrew, but a followup question; are there any rules determining how you are allowed to pursue guarantors? Would you be allowed to go after the "easiest target" for 100% or do you need to make a reasonable attempt to recover from all guarantors equally before going after any one of them (and who decides what's reasonable)?
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Post by Lep Recorn on Jun 11, 2014 16:48:02 GMT
I cannot speak for AC - but ****** bank went for the easiest target - me - and let my ex walk away from debts that she had run up! (30 years ago & I'm no longer bitter - honest!)
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 540
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Post by j on Jun 11, 2014 17:08:21 GMT
..........& I'm no longer bitter - honest!) Reminds me of the old Murp**s advert 
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Post by jevans4949 on Jun 11, 2014 22:23:47 GMT
Looks to me like the underwriter(s) decided to make their whole holding available immediately following the hiatus of the drawdown. It remains to be seen whether the "normal" lenders will be any more impressed this time than they were before the auction closed.
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