ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 20, 2018 20:07:31 GMT
One would assume that a Nationwide financial institution would have checked with HMRC yet provide a totally different opinion.
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jlend
Member of DD Central
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Post by jlend on May 21, 2018 8:22:07 GMT
One would assume that a Nationwide financial institution would have checked with HMRC yet provide a totally different opinion. It will be interesting to see what is on the Ratesetter tax statement when it comes out as this is being signed off by hmrc and the fca before RS publish. Plus AC have said they will do the same for their statements if they can. Of course every platform is slightly different....
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DeafEater
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Post by DeafEater on May 21, 2018 16:08:54 GMT
I heard back from Archover and they are regarding both 'welcome' and 'referrer' payments as incentives and as such are not including them in their return to HMRC. They do of course make it clear that it's up to me what I declare to HMRC. However since I've been told what they're doing and I have a tax statement from them that omits the incentive payments, you can probably hazard a guess as to what I'm declaring for that platform.
Growth Street have been less than candid on the matter. They started off by declining to answer a question that I didn't ask. I reiterated that I really WASN'T asking for tax advice and if they looked at my question again, they'd see I just wanted to know whether THEY will be declaring any aspect of the bonus payments to HMRC. They said: "we'll have to talk to our legal department" which seemed an odd thing to say because they really ought to know by now. Four working days later and still no response, I chased them up over the bank holiday weekend but still no response today.
The whole thing is a mess and my aim of keeping sweet with HMRC by declaring whatever aspect of the bonus payments any given platform are themselves declaring, has so far floundered with GS. If I ever do get a response, I will post back here but I'm not impressed. Did you ever get a response? I am finding it weird that platforms don't seem comfortable just picking up the phone and asking hmrc and the fca when they have queries like this. Surely that is better than 10s of thousands of lenders potentially asking the same question. As you say it's not tax advice... I did although I didn't find the response very illuminating. The GS 'legal department' explained that they don't routinely report ANY interest/incentive payment figures to HMRC which I found bizarre because if true, means HMRC have no means of automatically cross-checking the figures I submit to them on my SA return. GS went on to say that if HMRC was to ASK them for figures for a particular individual by way of some sort of official investigation or sample checking of their tax affairs, they would provide figures exactly as per the GS tax statement, including the separation of interest and incentive payments. Thus as far as GS are concerned, they don't need to invest any effort in deciding what's taxable and what isn't.
I confess that when our government first introduced the principle of paying interest without deduction of tax at source, I didn't understand how it could work because the interest paying organisations don't have a unique reference for the individual that HMRC would understand for reporting purposes. Only ISAs require you to give the financial organisation your NI number so anyone else trying to identify you to HMRC would need to do so using some sort of Heath-Robinson compound key cobbled together out of your name, postcode, house name or number and date of birth. I design databases for a living and I'd laugh at anyone suggesting that as a reliable tax collection system.
The government seem to be relying on the fact that if people earn interest outside an ISA, it will either be less than their £1000 tax free savings allowance (assuming a basic rate tax payer) or they will be scrupulously honest on their SA tax return. Of course a lot of people earning interest have never filled in tax returns and since HMRC spent several years trying to discourage me from doing so, I'm sure there are many people earning interest in excess of their tax free allowance that SHOULD be paying tax on it but aren't because there isn't a reliable mechanism for HMRC to find out about it.
Does anyone reading this have any insight into how HMRC track down interest payments to individuals who don't fill in SA returns? Given the news from GS I think I'll just declare the interest and leave out the incentive payments on my return.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 21, 2018 16:52:13 GMT
Did you ever get a response? I am finding it weird that platforms don't seem comfortable just picking up the phone and asking hmrc and the fca when they have queries like this. Surely that is better than 10s of thousands of lenders potentially asking the same question. As you say it's not tax advice... I did although I didn't find the response very illuminating. The GS 'legal department' explained that they don't routinely report ANY interest/incentive payment figures to HMRC which I found bizarre because if true, means HMRC have no means of automatically cross-checking the figures I submit to them on my SA return. GS went on to say that if HMRC was to ASK them for figures for a particular individual by way of some sort of official investigation or sample checking of their tax affairs, they would provide figures exactly as per the GS tax statement, including the separation of interest and incentive payments. Thus as far as GS are concerned, they don't need to invest any effort in deciding what's taxable and what isn't.
I confess that when our government first introduced the principle of paying interest without deduction of tax at source, I didn't understand how it could work because the interest paying organisations don't have a unique reference for the individual that HMRC would understand for reporting purposes. Only ISAs require you to give the financial organisation your NI number so anyone else trying to identify you to HMRC would need to do so using some sort of Heath-Robinson compound key cobbled together out of your name, postcode, house name or number and date of birth. I design databases for a living and I'd laugh at anyone suggesting that as a reliable tax collection system.
The government seem to be relying on the fact that if people earn interest outside an ISA, it will either be less than their £1000 tax free savings allowance (assuming a basic rate tax payer) or they will be scrupulously honest on their SA tax return. Of course a lot of people earning interest have never filled in tax returns and since HMRC spent several years trying to discourage me from doing so, I'm sure there are many people earning interest in excess of their tax free allowance that SHOULD be paying tax on it but aren't because there isn't a reliable mechanism for HMRC to find out about it.
Does anyone reading this have any insight into how HMRC track down interest payments to individuals who don't fill in SA returns? Given the news from GS I think I'll just declare the interest and leave out the incentive payments on my return.
My understanding was that financial institutions are now required to report figures to HMRC so GS response puzzles me. Maybe P2P doesn't qualify as it's other income but OEIC do & P2P interest is entered in the same place on SA IIRC. www.gov.uk/government/publications/type-17-and-18-bank-building-society-interest-and-other-interest-returns-of-interest-and-eusd/bank-and-building-society-bbsi-european-union-savings-directive-eusd-and-other-oi-returns-of-interestEdit Finance Act 2011, schedule 23 clause 12 refers to 'alternate finance return'. Exact definition would need checking.
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beh
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Post by beh on May 21, 2018 16:58:42 GMT
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jlend
Member of DD Central
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Post by jlend on May 21, 2018 16:58:43 GMT
Did you ever get a response? I am finding it weird that platforms don't seem comfortable just picking up the phone and asking hmrc and the fca when they have queries like this. Surely that is better than 10s of thousands of lenders potentially asking the same question. As you say it's not tax advice... I did although I didn't find the response very illuminating. The GS 'legal department' explained that they don't routinely report ANY interest/incentive payment figures to HMRC which I found bizarre because if true, means HMRC have no means of automatically cross-checking the figures I submit to them on my SA return. GS went on to say that if HMRC was to ASK them for figures for a particular individual by way of some sort of official investigation or sample checking of their tax affairs, they would provide figures exactly as per the GS tax statement, including the separation of interest and incentive payments. Thus as far as GS are concerned, they don't need to invest any effort in deciding what's taxable and what isn't.
I confess that when our government first introduced the principle of paying interest without deduction of tax at source, I didn't understand how it could work because the interest paying organisations don't have a unique reference for the individual that HMRC would understand for reporting purposes. Only ISAs require you to give the financial organisation your NI number so anyone else trying to identify you to HMRC would need to do so using some sort of Heath-Robinson compound key cobbled together out of your name, postcode, house name or number and date of birth. I design databases for a living and I'd laugh at anyone suggesting that as a reliable tax collection system.
The government seem to be relying on the fact that if people earn interest outside an ISA, it will either be less than their £1000 tax free savings allowance (assuming a basic rate tax payer) or they will be scrupulously honest on their SA tax return. Of course a lot of people earning interest have never filled in tax returns and since HMRC spent several years trying to discourage me from doing so, I'm sure there are many people earning interest in excess of their tax free allowance that SHOULD be paying tax on it but aren't because there isn't a reliable mechanism for HMRC to find out about it.
Does anyone reading this have any insight into how HMRC track down interest payments to individuals who don't fill in SA returns? Given the news from GS I think I'll just declare the interest and leave out the incentive payments on my return.
From hmrc You don’t need to do anything to claim your Personal Savings Allowance. If you fill in a Self Assessment tax return you should carry on doing this as normal. If you’re a basic rate taxpayer and have savings income or interest of more than £1,000 (£500 for higher rate taxpayers), you’ll have to pay some tax on this. For sole bank account holders, not in Self-Assessment, HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) will normally collect the tax by changing your tax code. Banks and building societies will give HMRC the information they need to do this.
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beh
Member of DD Central
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Post by beh on May 21, 2018 17:00:02 GMT
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Post by justuslee on May 22, 2018 7:44:32 GMT
I did although I didn't find the response very illuminating. The GS 'legal department' explained that they don't routinely report ANY interest/incentive payment figures to HMRC which I found bizarre because if true, means HMRC have no means of automatically cross-checking the figures I submit to them on my SA return. GS went on to say that if HMRC was to ASK them for figures for a particular individual by way of some sort of official investigation or sample checking of their tax affairs, they would provide figures exactly as per the GS tax statement, including the separation of interest and incentive payments. Thus as far as GS are concerned, they don't need to invest any effort in deciding what's taxable and what isn't.
I confess that when our government first introduced the principle of paying interest without deduction of tax at source, I didn't understand how it could work because the interest paying organisations don't have a unique reference for the individual that HMRC would understand for reporting purposes. Only ISAs require you to give the financial organisation your NI number so anyone else trying to identify you to HMRC would need to do so using some sort of Heath-Robinson compound key cobbled together out of your name, postcode, house name or number and date of birth. I design databases for a living and I'd laugh at anyone suggesting that as a reliable tax collection system.
The government seem to be relying on the fact that if people earn interest outside an ISA, it will either be less than their £1000 tax free savings allowance (assuming a basic rate tax payer) or they will be scrupulously honest on their SA tax return. Of course a lot of people earning interest have never filled in tax returns and since HMRC spent several years trying to discourage me from doing so, I'm sure there are many people earning interest in excess of their tax free allowance that SHOULD be paying tax on it but aren't because there isn't a reliable mechanism for HMRC to find out about it.
Does anyone reading this have any insight into how HMRC track down interest payments to individuals who don't fill in SA returns? Given the news from GS I think I'll just declare the interest and leave out the incentive payments on my return.
From hmrc You don’t need to do anything to claim your Personal Savings Allowance. If you fill in a Self Assessment tax return you should carry on doing this as normal. If you’re a basic rate taxpayer and have savings income or interest of more than £1,000 (£500 for higher rate taxpayers), you’ll have to pay some tax on this. For sole bank account holders, not in Self-Assessment, HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) will normally collect the tax by changing your tax code. Banks and building societies will give HMRC the information they need to do this.
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Post by justuslee on May 22, 2018 7:51:10 GMT
From hmrc You don’t need to do anything to claim your Personal Savings Allowance. If you fill in a Self Assessment tax return you should carry on doing this as normal. If you’re a basic rate taxpayer and have savings income or interest of more than £1,000 (£500 for higher rate taxpayers), you’ll have to pay some tax on this. For sole bank account holders, not in Self-Assessment, HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) will normally collect the tax by changing your tax code. Banks and building societies will give HMRC the information they need to do this. I’m pretty sure all P2P platforms are obliged to make a Return Of Interest (ROI) return to HMRC - we have been doing so since OFT days and pre-FCA. If firms are not operating as a true/pure 36H P2P platform, then the investment returns may not be deemed reportable interest payments as the investors are not P2P lenders. The platform should be able to clarify.
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jlend
Member of DD Central
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Post by jlend on May 22, 2018 8:46:05 GMT
I’m pretty sure all P2P platforms are obliged to make a Return Of Interest (ROI) return to HMRC - we have been doing so since OFT days and pre-FCA. If firms are not operating as a true/pure 36H P2P platform, then the investment returns may not be deemed reportable interest payments as the investors are not P2P lenders. The platform should be able to clarify. They are still saying they don't need to this morning. Growth Street does not collect taxes at source, so it is your responsibility to declare and pay any tax on your investment to HMRC directly. We don’t regularly report investor income to HMRC, but if requested by them we would, and we believe this has happened with other platforms in the past. If this was the case, we would make our records available and all income would be categorised in the same way as it is displayed on your statement. How that income is treated for tax purposes will depend on your individual tax status. If you are unsure, we would suggest you speak to HMRC or your local tax office.
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Post by justuslee on May 22, 2018 12:42:34 GMT
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jlend
Member of DD Central
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Post by jlend on May 22, 2018 14:10:45 GMT
They repeated the same statement i posted from them this morning when provided with the link. I will leave it at that now. Am sure they will contact lenders if they change their thinking. They dont post on this forum as a rule.
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on May 27, 2018 13:46:18 GMT
It is my understanding that those not completing a SA return must notify HMRC of P2P earnings - I did last year for me & my wife. Just waiting for RS to bother giving us a tax statement for 2018 year to do so again!
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 2, 2019 13:19:37 GMT
Any sign of a tax statement?
I'm not using GS at the moment, so not sure if I've missed anything, but I will have interest to declare.
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Post by dan1 on May 2, 2019 13:21:46 GMT
Any sign of a tax statement? I'm not using GS at the moment, so not sure if I've missed anything, but I will have interest to declare. Last years was sent out by email on 25th April.... FWIW.
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