thedog
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Post by thedog on Jun 6, 2019 10:44:32 GMT
I'm not in these loans but have been looking at the updates from FS today as an "education".
My guess is that FS systems don't allow them to "close" a loan and still leave it accruing interest.
Certainly in the event that there is any further recovery the unpaid accrued on the repaid capital should rank pari passu with the unpaid senior capital and the interest on that and ahead of the supps (sorry supp investors....). If there is much more recovery (good luck....) the interest due on the repaid capital would have to calculated outside the systems we see.
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sqh
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Post by sqh on Jun 6, 2019 11:01:12 GMT
I'm a bit confused how FS deals with these partial repayments. My loan parts were split into two. One with 73% of the principal is closed, but only the principal is paid back. The rest of it is still open and interest is shown. There are supplemental loans still listed, with interest (luckily I'm not involved in these). Now, I don't expect any interest on these in practice, but in theory: if I can expect any interest, shouldn't it be listed somewhere? Especially since my interest ranks before the supplemental loans. Right? If I cannot expect interest, why the other parts have interest listed? Maybe it's just a programmatical or UX problem, but still... Anyway, can we claim the interest part from the borrower or from the valuer? you only get the interest when the net proceeds are enough to cover the capital and interest, the interest is left showing (I assume) to be paid if the RICS claim and PG produce any more money which I doubt The problem is that interest is NOT left showing and should be. It could cause confusion at a later stage.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jun 6, 2019 11:23:46 GMT
you only get the interest when the net proceeds are enough to cover the capital and interest, the interest is left showing (I assume) to be paid if the RICS claim and PG produce any more money which I doubt The problem is that interest is NOT left showing and should be. It could cause confusion at a later stage. On other loans, FS assured lenders they keep a record of the "missing" interest on the repaid portion in the background. But that's pretty academic, since the chances of it ever being paid out are vanishingly small...
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james21
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Post by james21 on Jun 6, 2019 11:32:02 GMT
£365k in lower rank loans, 100% loss for investors (inc me when I was not as wise as I am now). Disgraceful funding secure
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james21
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Post by james21 on Jun 6, 2019 12:01:06 GMT
Just a reminder, same borrower :Property Loan - **lt Road - Birken**** , Ch**ter House , Development in The W***** , Lla***dno Hotel, Glodda*** flat . Lots more bad news to come next month or two
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Jun 6, 2019 12:09:14 GMT
£365k in lower rank loans, 100% loss for investors (inc me when I was not as wise as I am now). Disgraceful funding secure It is indeed...even if you look at residual amounts left over in the Primary Loans where 73% was returned, it is appalling the amounts that will inevitably be lost. I watch with interest on fundingsecure 's future proposed actions.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jun 6, 2019 12:15:20 GMT
But it still won’t hit the FS definitive loss figures, since the unpaid balance is still listed as an ongoing loan in perpetuity....
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 6, 2019 12:49:47 GMT
True - I just don't understand how this developer was allowed to borrow so much money across so many concurrent developments on what will undoubtedly prove to be vastly overvalued assets. Have FS a secure audit trail for where all the money has gone and this developer is skint with a skint wife living in a bedsit and visiting food banks - I wonder!
This is one of my mega 40 list - will try to update over the weekend but I think the main loans were division 2 whereas I predicted division 1 but overall a premier league loss with both supplementary loans a 100% loss as I predicted. Am I psychic - sadly not as it just struck me as a disaster waiting to happen - although not as crazy as the Park Homes - speaking of which it is time we had an update.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 6, 2019 13:12:52 GMT
True - I just don't understand how this developer was allowed to borrow so much money across so many concurrent developments on what will undoubtedly prove to be vastly overvalued assets. Have FS a secure audit trail for where all the money has gone and this developer is skint with a skint wife living in a bedsit and visiting food banks - I wonder! This is one of my mega 40 list - will try to update over the weekend but I think the main loans were division 2 whereas I predicted division 1 but overall a premier league loss with both supplementary loans a 100% loss as I predicted. Am I psychic - sadly not as it just struck me as a disaster waiting to happen - although not as crazy as the Park Homes - speaking of which it is time we had an update. Oh adrian77, you DO understand how they were allowed to, we ALL do. And WHY. If The FCA aren't seriously "chatting" with this lot by now, they damn well should be.
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Jun 6, 2019 13:30:07 GMT
The same way that mr SD was allowed 30+ mill by LB/lendy for grossly overvalued bits of land and student schemes.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 6, 2019 13:36:03 GMT
Fair point - I was just being polite and tactful - but will be sober later on today...
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coop
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Post by coop on Jun 7, 2019 9:59:36 GMT
But it still won’t hit the FS definitive loss figures, since the unpaid balance is still listed as an ongoing loan in perpetuity.... And this is arguably the biggest fraud of all. That 0.69% loss through default figure is tempting mugs in by the hundred and it's wholly misleading and to say otherwise is indefensible. Shameful from this company imo
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Jun 7, 2019 12:08:39 GMT
But it still won’t hit the FS definitive loss figures, since the unpaid balance is still listed as an ongoing loan in perpetuity.... And this is arguably the biggest fraud of all. That 0.69% loss through default figure is tempting mugs in by the hundred and it's wholly misleading and to say otherwise is indefensible. Shameful from this company imo It is misleading, but then the whole show is misleading. It's now perfectly obvious that many of these loans are never going to be paid back and that the security is frequently totally insufficient to cover the loan when it is finally defaulted. With the incompetence, negligence, chancers and outright fraud you would need your bumps felt to invest here. Another grand down the pan with The D*LL, another grand with Whitehaven, two grand more on wind turbines. Thank goodness I never bothered with art work that FS were keeping nice and secure, or maybe not. OK, maybe knowing what I know now I might have avoided some of that and I expect some risk and defaulted loans, but this place can be financial suicide.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 8, 2019 9:52:17 GMT
I am looking to update my top 40 mega disaster list - this one is on it and clearly not exactly a good result. As I did not renew my holding in this one I never got the update - wonder why FS never made it public?
I have deduced the following by taking 73% of main loans recovered - can somebody please correct me if this is wrong
monies lent = phase 1 + phase 1 supp + phase 2 + phase 2 supp
= £154,431.39 + £115,000.00 + £279,318.18 + £250,000.00
= £798,749.57
monies recovered = £112,734.91 + £0.00 + £203,902.27 + £0.00
= £316,637.19
thus % recovered = 316,637.19 /798,749.57 = 39.64%
or to put another way = 60% loss and I think phases 1/2 supplementary are 100% total loss numbers 4 and 5 (others being, Wimbledon (tbc), Knaresborough, South Wales Hotel)
I thank you.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 8, 2019 21:03:38 GMT
thanks for this - I now make the overall return 60% - fantastic I am totally baffled why this is so complicated to work out - surely FS aren't trying to minimise bad news with these confidential emails, redefined loan titles etc
I won't be surprised if the other director's loan (of which I am in several) come in at a similar or even worse level. Goodness knows I have made some bad decisions in my developing career but even for a born again slaphead such as moi losing 40% is no mean feat and as for the 100% losses...
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