carlos
I'm short Bondora and long p2p.
Posts: 104 
Likes: 21
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Post by carlos on Apr 18, 2017 19:21:02 GMT
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Post by oktaeder on Apr 18, 2017 20:00:27 GMT
I don't know. Some (small estonian) loans have bids up to 3000% of their amount.
To let the biggest bid win was a very strange idea. So they corrected it.
But to claim that bondora hears on what their investors say is ... no word for it.
BTW, carlos, what happened with bondpicking? It was nice to see the 2nd market transaction of a specific loan but it seems not to work anymore.
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carlos
I'm short Bondora and long p2p.
Posts: 104
Likes: 21
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Post by carlos on Apr 20, 2017 15:24:48 GMT
oktaeder, thanks for support, but I have to apologize, I just gave up on updating the site scripts everytime Bondora changed something.. It was needed in practice every two or three weeks. They are not working with developers in any way nor announcing their changes and it was time consuming to debug and find out everytime what exactly was changed in their dataset (it was partly working with API and partly on whole dataset export). Also I sold practically everything of any value and don't invest any more funds, so besides very having fractional residual amount invested and ocassional reading this forum I'm practically done with Bondora. I don't want to support them anyhow by running website basically helping their services  when I cannot recommend them (actually I have to warn against them - one example being DCA charges). I will rather invest my time somewhere it has some meaning for other side also.. |
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Post by kilozulu on Apr 20, 2017 20:19:14 GMT
Or maybe their attempt to get institutional investors on board was not successful... What you think? Pretty obvious it failed. Institutional investors are smart&sophisticated investors, so all the  Bondora was doing with DCAs etc must have scared them away big time. Also institutionals are proffesionals, so quick to react. Once they figured out Bondora was a duck, it was a short sell. Retail investors are a slow and partially stupid crowd, so obvious back-stop for Bondora to try. May even work if Bondora ditches the Spaniard homeless lending and gets numbers to work again.
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Post by rahafoorum on May 24, 2017 12:48:16 GMT
You can take a look at the volumes that Bondora can fund per month. While they did increase a little bit at one point, they were essentially static for a long while even after they said there are "a couple" of institutional investors on the platform. Now it seems to have been going down a bit again.
If there are institutional investors, then clearly volumes aren't that significant and/or retail investors are leaving faster than the institutionals bring in. And Bondora seems to be working real hard to get rid of the last retail investors as well...
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Post by oktaeder on May 24, 2017 14:07:41 GMT
And Bondora seems to be working real hard to get rid of the last retail investors as well... +1
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Post by gmaxkenny on May 24, 2017 16:23:48 GMT
And Bondora seems to be working real hard to get rid of the last retail investors as well... +1 +2
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Post by kissmyjazz on May 26, 2017 22:33:32 GMT
+3
I completely stopped caring about Bondora
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Post by thep2pinvestor on May 27, 2017 4:57:04 GMT
Maybe I have not yet found out all the features of Bondora, but what i find painful:
- the amounts of a single loan you can buy are extremely low (sometimes 2-3 EUR or even less)
- the time it takes to check the appropriateness of each loan with your investment criteria
- the time to check if the loan is not yet in your loan book
All this makes Bondora look more like a hobby than an investment. The time investment is in no proportion with the earnings, at least not for me. So my Bondora ptf is in run off mode.
If you consider that a lot of Institutionals would not write tickets below 1 Mio Eur, Bondora, and P2P lending in general, are not appropriate investments for Institutionals. Unless you bundle loans in a securitisation vehicle and then sell them by the millions, but even there, I don't see where the loan volumes could be originated.
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Post by pedrolopes on May 29, 2017 5:11:21 GMT
Greetings,
They are not so flamboyant about showing their hammered "growth" statistics anymore.
It is likely that Bondora might move their operations out of Estonia to some other country with less sophisticated legislation in regards to P2P lending, because last year Estonia changed the law making it very difficult for P2P platforms without "skin in the game" strategies, basically most P2P in Estonia now have to finance the loans and then sell those previously financed loans on their platform, that constitutes a risk for the platform because if they issue a loan that is so bad it will not be sold on their platform to the retail investors, that means that the platform will have to hold that loan with their own capital, exposing themselves to the risk of such loan. That is why Bondora ended the manual bidding feature, thus they can continue to finance bad loans because the accounts with running portfolio managers will pick those loans.
But something did changed, now even Finn HR loans (that were the second best in that risk category, after Estonian HR) have now absurd interest rates of 180%.
I just hope this change in the Estonian legislation kills Bondora for good and some other company can just buy the existing loan management from Bondora.
Even Omaraha managed to become better than Bondora.
They simply do not learn from their mistakes.
Best regards.
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Post by rahafoorum on May 29, 2017 11:24:49 GMT
Greetings, They are not so flamboyant about showing their hammered "growth" statistics anymore. It is likely that Bondora might move their operations out of Estonia to some other country with less sophisticated legislation in regards to P2P lending, because last year Estonia changed the law making it very difficult for P2P platforms without "skin in the game" strategies, basically most P2P in Estonia now have to finance the loans and then sell those previously financed loans on their platform, that constitutes a risk for the platform because if they issue a loan that is so bad it will not be sold on their platform to the retail investors, that means that the platform will have to hold that loan with their own capital, exposing themselves to the risk of such loan. That is why Bondora ended the manual bidding feature, thus they can continue to finance bad loans because the accounts with running portfolio managers will pick those loans. But something did changed, now even Finn HR loans (that were the second best in that risk category, after Estonian HR) have now absurd interest rates of 180%. I just hope this change in the Estonian legislation kills Bondora for good and some other company can just buy the existing loan management from Bondora. Even Omaraha managed to become better than Bondora. They simply do not learn from their mistakes. Best regards. I think you have misunderstood the situation here. Bondora doesn't take any risk when funding loans. Before they "fund" a loan, the funds are reserved from investors so, even if they technically fund those loans with their own cash, then this lasts mere seconds (or minutes considering the speed of their servers sometimes...) and consists of no risk to Bondora. For example: A loan of €5000 comes to market. Investors make bids on it of €1850. Then Bondora reserves the funds, then "funds" the loan by €1850 and sells the pieces to investors. Well, in reality they seem to be funding it by €1855 and keeping €5 part as their "skin-in-the-game". Considering that out of that €1850 they take roughly €110 as origination fees and have no financial obligations if the loan should default, then I tend to call it foreskin-in-the-game
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Post by pedrolopes on May 29, 2017 11:48:49 GMT
You are right, they do not put too much skin on the game, they managed a way to go around the legislation.
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when I cannot recommend them (actually I have to warn against them - one example being DCA charges). I will rather invest my time somewhere it has some meaning for other side also.. 
Bondora was doing with DCAs etc must have scared them away big time. Also institutionals are proffesionals, so quick to react. Once they figured out Bondora was a duck, it was a short sell. Retail investors are a slow and partially stupid crowd, so obvious back-stop for Bondora to try. May even work if Bondora ditches the Spaniard homeless lending and gets numbers to work again.