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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Feb 23, 2018 15:30:15 GMT
2% CB added to the 6 outstanding 15% tranches. I have (somewhat with trepidation) put into these. As a taxpayer, cashback is "double bubble", but more importantly, I have significant stakes in the 12% senior and 14% mezzanine tranches, and REALLY want to see this complete. This makes a mockery of my diversification, but I was thinking "needs must". Collateral Rep - it would be really useful to know how much more beyond these current tranches is envisaged to be required to allow completion. Due to the size of this loan, and the presumption that many others are also overweight in it, added to the volume of suspended/defaults elsewhere, please do all you can to maintain investor confidence with frequent detailed (and truthful!) updates as putting further £ in comes more from the heart than the head. I can't argue with your logic, plus it is a very tempting offer now given a finish line is faintly visible. Money is being invested (including a fair amount of mine) but not with much thought I would argue, tactics dictate bidding on the loan closest to completion. This benefits the developer as he gets some finance, and us. The 2% cashback can then be recycled into the next best tranche......etc...etc. Assuming my understanding is right and draw down would be fairly instant and cashback paid accordingly.
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ingwer
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Post by ingwer on Feb 24, 2018 17:20:21 GMT
Confused here... Where does it state the rate is 2%. On the Collateral site, against the loan there is "Cashback available" but not the rate and neither do the individual loan updates mention a rate. Neither did I receive a email. Was there one ? Or am I just blind ?
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zendog
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Post by zendog on Feb 24, 2018 17:38:21 GMT
Confused here... Where does it state the rate is 2%. On the Collateral site, against the loan there is "Cashback available" but not the rate and neither do the individual loan updates mention a rate. Neither did I receive a email. Was there one ? Or am I just blind ? If you look at the loan details on the website it states "We've applied a 2% Cashback Incentive to this loan. This will be given retrospectively to loan parts already bought and as each loan is drawndown cashback will be paid to investors. "
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ingwer
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Post by ingwer on Feb 24, 2018 17:47:59 GMT
Thanks Zendog. My speed reading obviously needs more work Weird there was no advisory email.
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stub8535
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personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Feb 24, 2018 21:41:51 GMT
2% CB added to the 6 outstanding 15% tranches. I have (somewhat with trepidation) put into these. As a taxpayer, cashback is "double bubble", but more importantly, I have significant stakes in the 12% senior and 14% mezzanine tranches, and REALLY want to see this complete. This makes a mockery of my diversification, but I was thinking "needs must". Collateral Rep - it would be really useful to know how much more beyond these current tranches is envisaged to be required to allow completion. Due to the size of this loan, and the presumption that many others are also overweight in it, added to the volume of suspended/defaults elsewhere, please do all you can to maintain investor confidence with frequent detailed (and truthful!) updates as putting further £ in comes more from the heart than the head. I can't argue with your logic, plus it is a very tempting offer now given a finish line is faintly visible. Money is being invested (including a fair amount of mine) but not with much thought I would argue, tactics dictate bidding on the loan closest to completion. This benefits the developer as he gets some finance, and us. The 2% cashback can then be recycled into the next best tranche......etc...etc. Assuming my understanding is right and draw down would be fairly instant and cashback paid accordingly. You are right for income purposes albeit a diminishing investment and thus bonus paid. In terms of risk there is an arguement to place money into the final tranche, on the basis that it will fill last, so you get interest and cashback, hopefully, if it does not draw down. No risk to capital or accrued interest if project does not get filled. Having said that I perceive a danger that if the tranches are not filled then the developer cannot finish the project under current borrowings. This may be solved by the borrower getting a second charge funding for the residual or full funding from another source thus taking away our 15% loan. With a buyer awaiting the completion I hope that funds can be found within the lender base. Cashback of 2% is unlikely to get massive funds flowing in as investors may be at their limits. Being an engineer my limits are always plus or minus x%
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southport
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Post by southport on Feb 25, 2018 5:07:06 GMT
I have a lot of money tied up in the Burnley, Blackburn and Colne Hall loans. If these loans redeem as intimated by Collateral I will be putting some of those funds into this loan. Just have to see what the end of Feb brings.
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seeingred
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Post by seeingred on Feb 25, 2018 13:08:07 GMT
This loan looks likely to be OK - eventually - but on other platforms there are stark reminders of what is a generic risk of the final stages of DFL type loans.
This is when the project can run out of funds - or need to breach its LTV limits - examples include the Plymouth flats and the Bolly housing development on MT (same developer). And of course the Exeter DFL001 shambles on Lendy. The project 50% completed in round figures and no money left. Project management and supervision asleep at the wheel?
In all cases, funding the final tranches of a DFL can be a risky business - you put in money knowing it will gain only modest interest (over a predicted short period until completion), CB is an incentive of course - maybe an essential one as Lendy found out on the Arbo loan. And all of a sudden that seems far from being signed and sealed??
The risk of failing just short of the finish line remains ever present - look at Bir****** in MT (yet another MT loan gone badly wrong) - it just stalled.
And of course the S** building on Lendy - almost finished I hear you say, and a low LTV - well, short of a few million that no-one seems able to come up with.
Sometimes of course a project flounders even before a sod is turned over - look at Isle of Wight on Lendy - a more monumental **** up of legal and/or planning DD would be difficult to find. No wonder we have been told nothing for so long that maybe Lendy hope we will forget the loan ever existed.
Some other COL loans that are currently inactive building sites (although we were told works would commence in January and with QS reports to confirm this??) - are they going to be refinanced away, and by whom and on what terms? I just hope they do redeem on COL or otherwise come good - if not the platform can wave goodbye to much investor sentiment.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Feb 25, 2018 17:14:18 GMT
I recently sold out of all the 15% tranches in this loan - I am already overweight in the 12 & 14% ones, but the cash-back got me wondering about re-purchasing some 15% tranches. I may think I'm sitting pretty in these 'safer' earlier tranches, but as we all know things can go horribly wrong with amazing speed and with little forewarning for even the most astute platforms with the most robust monitoring regimes. A half finished or incomplete development can almost be worse than one not yet started in terms of outcomes for investors. So perhaps my best bet might be to take a bit more of a risk in these final tranches.
Further questions here also made me look the loan overall which I hadn't actually done for a while. To stick to the LTV of 69% (yeah I know) it seems there is only headway for a maximum additional £686k of this behemoth to come, with circa £428k remaining in the current cash-back tranches.
This is where BL00026 and all it's subsequent tranches currently are:
BL @ 12% £1,683,600 DL s @ 14% £1,081,325 DL s @ 15% £2,424,125 DL s unfunded @ 15% (£428,000)
Total Call so Far £5,189,050 Total Dev Tranches so far £3,505,450 69% of £8,515,000 LTV ~ £5,875,350 Potential remaining £686,300 headroom from LTV
I am (perhaps not surprisingly) slightly sceptical about the heads of terms and exit happening as predicted around the beginning of May, but maybe this'll be that rarity of the P2P world a loan that repays on time. I'm still considering whether to do my bit to help.
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seeingred
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Post by seeingred on Feb 25, 2018 20:38:25 GMT
Lack of headroom on LTV is putting it very neatly star dust , that is exactly what happened on the Bolly loan on MT - but allied to a developer of questionable ability. It is less of a feature of the S** building on Lendy - there the LTV remains reasonable (so I believe) but up front cash to finish the project simply isn't forthcoming - which itself is deeply concerning if indeed the LTV is still OK. It is almost as if these projects may need a 'white knight' waiting in the wings ready to inject short term cash to get projects over the finishing line and avoid the mess of seeing them fail and sold at below true value. It would need to be someone versed in getting stalled major projects moving again - and quickly, in return for a good profit. It would be worthwhile the P2P platforms agreeing to suspend/cancel interest payments to allow some headroom to get the necessary capital injected. P2P investors would readily agree to lose some interest in order to get capital back?
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Feb 25, 2018 20:46:04 GMT
Lack of headroom on LTV is putting it very neatly star dust , that is exactly what happened on the Bolly loan on MT - but allied to a developer of questionable ability. It is less of a feature of the S** building on Lendy - there the LTV remains reasonable (so I believe) but up front cash to finish the project simply isn't forthcoming - which itself is deeply concerning if indeed the LTV is still OK. It is almost as if these projects may need a 'white knight' waiting in the wings ready to inject short term cash to get projects over the finishing line and avoid the mess of seeing them fail and sold at below true value. It would need to be someone versed in getting stalled major projects moving again - and quickly, in return for a good profit. It would be worthwhile the P2P platforms agreeing to suspend/cancel interest payments to allow some headroom to get the necessary capital injected. P2P investors would readily agree to lose some interest in order to get capital back? Sxx building should be very low LTV given it was a PBL and nothing but dirt when it started. So I wouldn't be happy to forgo interest as I would rather get my interest and capital. Also, with the col student prop I'm in the first tranch which has the best risk adjusted return, miles better than even the 15% DFLs after it. Anyway, looks like all is progressing well with this one so hopefully shouldn't be any problems.
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seeingred
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Post by seeingred on Feb 25, 2018 23:07:08 GMT
I tend to agree this one is looking good - I've more confidence in the outcome here than for some developments on other platforms.
There is little for sale of the earlier tranches - a very good sign - so what is needed maybe is just some capital to be released from other loans to fill the final tranches.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Feb 26, 2018 1:35:01 GMT
I had no remaining exposure to this loan so have done my bit for all you senior risk-adjusters
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Feb 26, 2018 8:39:46 GMT
I tend to agree this one is looking good - I've more confidence in the outcome here than for some developments on other platforms. There is little for sale of the earlier tranches - a very good sign - so what is needed maybe is just some capital to be released from other loans to fill the final tranches. Perhaps you spoke too soon. Currently there's £19k available in the original 12% BL, so looks like someone's taken fright. I'm happy enough in the 12% 1st ranking tranche, on the basis that even a fire-sale should cover this, but wouldn't really fancy holding the 14% 2nd ranking tranches, let alone the 15% 3rd ranking ones. I always thought the strange approach taken to financing the DL tranches invited later headaches...
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Feb 26, 2018 8:54:39 GMT
I tend to agree this one is looking good - I've more confidence in the outcome here than for some developments on other platforms. There is little for sale of the earlier tranches - a very good sign - so what is needed maybe is just some capital to be released from other loans to fill the final tranches. Perhaps you spoke too soon. Currently there's £19k available in the original 12% BL, so looks like someone's taken fright. I'm happy enough in the 12% 1st ranking tranche, on the basis that even a fire-sale should cover this, but wouldn't really fancy holding the 14% 2nd ranking tranches, let alone the 15% 3rd ranking ones. I always thought the strange approach taken to financing the DL tranches invited later headaches... I agree, and am also sitting only in 026 (and even then, halved my position). Whilst I admire the spirit in some ways, I'm afraid I can't afford to share any misty-eyed sentimental approaches to completing funding for this, or any, project. If funding is still too short, the best answer for me is for Collateral to get some other loans redeemed as they've advised they will shortly. This will both free up funds for investors willing to take the higher risk and also prove that the platform mean what they say which will inspire more trust. Either that, or some significant first-loss contribution from another source.
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Post by d_saver on Feb 26, 2018 9:32:53 GMT
I think ~72k of these outstanding tranches (1 now filled) taken since the cashback was announced, with ~426k remaining. Although I'm not sure that investment rate will continue over the next week or so, if any of the planned repayments come through next few days as hoped, this could actually shift fairly soon. The struggle here is that most people (including me) that invest with Col have pretty much had their fill or are fully invested on the platform. Hope Col are looking for new investors...
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