jaswells
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Post by jaswells on Sept 13, 2019 22:32:32 GMT
This loan has turned out to be a complete horror show. Pursuing a guy 1.7m in debt as last resort. A catastrophic 100% of 1 million pounds in the pipeline.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Sept 29, 2019 10:15:48 GMT
Looking at the Loan security blurb, these loans were supposed to be covered by credit insurance so that in the event of a default, lenders were to be repaid from the insurance pay outs. There were also covenants that the borrower had to comply with. AC had a legal obligation, as our Agent, to ensure that these conditions were complied with. They took their eye of the ball and failed us completely. As they are now using "surplus" monies from the PFs to repay lenders in wind turbine loans, they should also pay lenders who have lost money due to their debacle in these loans. An interesting comparison. I'm not in the wind turbine loans and although I'm reading that thread with interest, I've not commented on it. But you raise an interesting question: if their treatment of the Wind Turbine loans is some sort of admission that they messed up and are using available funds to sort it out, why not these loans (disclosure: I do have a piece of these!) as well? I suppose the key question is about culpability. The MLA is explicitly not covered by a PF, I get that. If I choose to buy into an MLA loan (which I did - this isn't a question of my being forcibly allocated something I didn't ask for) then I am explicitly accepting the risk of it going wrong. However, I think I am entitled to expect competent and truthful behaviour from the platform in offering it, and my feeling, like yours, is that this set of loans falls into the "platform fault" category. How about it, guys?
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Sept 29, 2019 12:36:06 GMT
AC had a legal obligation, as our Agent, to ensure that these conditions were complied with. They took their eye of the ball and failed us completely. Care to expand on that point? What exactly is the legal obligation you refer to - and how did AC demonstrably fail to honour it
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mary
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Post by mary on Sept 29, 2019 17:58:52 GMT
Read the Security parameters of the loan where they set out the conditions that the loan and subsequent tranches were set up under. Diveregencies from these conditions should have resulted in the loan being suspended and the conditions put right or the loan defaulted. It is all about timelines and when breaches of the security conditions occurred. The similar loan via ArchOver, to the related company, also defaulted and the Platform failed to notice the breach of terms (possibly/likely?) due to ********** actions by the controlling parties. However, the subsequent strong legal position taken by ArchOver is entirely different to that of AC. While no recovery has occurred to date, I am hopeful in the longer term. Ultimately, how Platforms cope with the defaults that will occur will built their reputation. Managing to use excess funds to cover up a huge mis-management of a multi-£m loan, while welcome to some who are exposed, is just brushing the issue under the carpet, hoping no one sees the real issue. Maybe it’s all fixed now, RS have promised the same when they took a huge hit from mis-managed expansion into bulk Car loans. Time will tell, but it also opens Pandora’s Box if/when other AC loans go very bad and there’s no excess funds available.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on May 8, 2021 13:28:20 GMT
Usually worthwhile keeping tabs on the FOS' decision pages. Often gives an insight into where the Ombudsman's thinking is with regard to the inappropriate actions of either Provider or Consumer. A pair of decisions was released at some point in the last two weeks or so which - given dates, amount and some other details - I think relates to the first in this series of loans: DRN1907721 / DRN3554336Both complaints basically centre around AC mis-selling the loan and in both cases the decision found in favour of AC with the Ombudsman concluding that (cue over-generalisation from myself): 'The information provided was clear; Caveat Emptor.'
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on May 8, 2021 16:06:23 GMT
Usually worthwhile keeping tabs on the FOS' decision pages. Often gives an insight into where the Ombudsman's thinking is with regard to the inappropriate actions of either Provider or Consumer. A pair of decisions was released at some point in the last two weeks or so which - given dates, amount and some other details - I think relates to the first in this series of loans: DRN1907721 / DRN3554336Both complaints basically centre around AC mis-selling the loan and in both cases the decision found in favour of AC with the Ombudsman concluding that (cue over-generalisation from myself): 'The information provided was clear; Caveat Emptor.' I wasn't in this one, but guess it's a bit like the South Coast Plumber. The majority of the 'assets' were the debtor book, which turned out to be worth a lot less than originally advertised (diddly-squat in both cases).
I note that the Ombudsman concluded it wasn't realistic to expect AC to check the value of an asset held by a third party. Seems this just opens up a whole new can of worms.
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p2pete
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Post by p2pete on Dec 31, 2021 13:07:06 GMT
The value of the assets of the guarantor is also 0. "Therefore, it is not yet clear whether there is likely to be any asset realisations in the bankruptcy to allow for a distribution to unsecured creditors but it appears unlikely"
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jan 1, 2022 12:09:12 GMT
The value of the assets of the guarantor is also 0. "Therefore, it is not yet clear whether there is likely to be any asset realisations in the bankruptcy to allow for a distribution to unsecured creditors but it appears unlikely"
These loans represented my largest loss on P2P over 10 years. These and the Wind turbine loans woke me up to the fact I had put too much confidence in the loan selection made by platforms and led to selling out my investments in 2019. I came out of P2P with a decent return, which I would not have done if I had remained invested beyond 2019.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jan 2, 2022 23:01:18 GMT
The value of the assets of the guarantor is also 0. "Therefore, it is not yet clear whether there is likely to be any asset realisations in the bankruptcy to allow for a distribution to unsecured creditors but it appears unlikely"
These loans represented my largest loss on P2P over 10 years. These and the Wind turbine loans woke me up to the fact I had put too much confidence in the loan selection made by platforms and led to selling out my investments in 2019. I came out of P2P with a decent return, which I would not have done if I had remained invested beyond 2019.
One of my biggest losses too. In a way it's stupid as I remember reading in one of the updates about a year after the loans started; it said something along the lines that AC was seeking a meeting with the principal wanting to clarify more precisely how the business worked. Which rang alarm bells as AC had already done a lot of work on understanding the biz, but I didn't heed those bells. Reading between the lines now, metaphorically speaking, I think AC was having trouble accepting the "facts" they were getting from the biz.
IMHO
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 3, 2022 9:11:06 GMT
These loans represented my largest loss on P2P over 10 years. These and the Wind turbine loans woke me up to the fact I had put too much confidence in the loan selection made by platforms and led to selling out my investments in 2019. I came out of P2P with a decent return, which I would not have done if I had remained invested beyond 2019.
One of my biggest losses too. In a way it's stupid as I remember reading in one of the updates about a year after the loans started; it said something along the lines that AC was seeking a meeting with the principal wanting to clarify more precisely how the business worked. Which rang alarm bells as AC had already done a lot of work on understanding the biz, but I didn't heed those bells. Reading between the lines now, metaphorically speaking, I think AC was having trouble accepting the "facts" they were getting from the biz.
IMHO
Would have been a lot better if they checked on this before lending the cash.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Jan 3, 2022 12:13:29 GMT
The value of the assets of the guarantor is also 0. "Therefore, it is not yet clear whether there is likely to be any asset realisations in the bankruptcy to allow for a distribution to unsecured creditors but it appears unlikely"
These loans represented my largest loss on P2P over 10 years. These and the Wind turbine loans woke me up to the fact I had put too much confidence in the loan selection made by platforms and led to selling out my investments in 2019. I came out of P2P with a decent return, which I would not have done if I had remained invested beyond 2019.
Started moving out of P2P back end of 2017. The writing was on the wall regarding the contemptuous attitude shown by many platforms towards lenders and how they were slowly moving themselves up the 'pecking order' with small alterations to backdated T's & C's regarding recoveries, increasing monthly monitoring fees, more opaque DD (if any), interconnected interests between the platform and the borrower, patronising responses to valid questions being asked by lenders - the list is endless. All of course being done without any financial input from the platform(s) themselves. A total injustice in my book.
Apart from a few zombie loans which will yield zero, I got out just in time with like angrysaveruk a decent return and no thanks to the FCA who allowed these charlatan platforms to operate with their 'seal of approval'. As mentioned many full moons ago, this forum should have been compulsory reading before anyone invested/lent a single penny into a platform. Sadly though only a small minority did and the financial hardship and health issues caused has been immense. Not of course that the platforms care one hoot!!
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alender
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Post by alender on Jan 3, 2022 13:03:34 GMT
These loans represented my largest loss on P2P over 10 years. These and the Wind turbine loans woke me up to the fact I had put too much confidence in the loan selection made by platforms and led to selling out my investments in 2019. I came out of P2P with a decent return, which I would not have done if I had remained invested beyond 2019.
Started moving out of P2P back end of 2017. The writing was on the wall regarding the contemptuous attitude shown by many platforms towards lenders and how they were slowly moving themselves up the 'pecking order' with small alterations to backdated T's & C's regarding recoveries, increasing monthly monitoring fees, more opaque DD (if any), interconnected interests between the platform and the borrower, patronising responses to valid questions being asked by lenders - the list is endless. All of course being done without any financial input from the platform(s) themselves. A total injustice in my book.
Apart from a few zombie loans which will yield zero, I got out just in time with like angrysaveruk a decent return and no thanks to the FCA who allowed these charlatan platforms to operate with their 'seal of approval'. As mentioned many full moons ago, this forum should have been compulsory reading before anyone invested/lent a single penny into a platform. Sadly though only a small minority did and the financial hardship and health issues caused has been immense. Not of course that the platforms care one hoot!! Unfortunately all true, I think the only thing that saved AC investors was the massive government support to borrowers and AC via the various schemes (who else would pay the directors salary and bonuses), otherwise many of the loans would have gone over and AC would have kept all the repayments in the AA accounts to keep AC afloat so the directors could keep their salaries for as long as possible. I was an investor with Wellesley but got out long before the collapse as it just did not look right.
However the real crisis is just beginning, due over spending governments, governments covid policies, energy price increases caused by green policies etc. increased taxation and high inflation. There is now very little money available for government support as they have already spent the next generations taxes before they are even old enough to start paying them. I do not hold up much hope for a lot of the AC loans especially given their track record, just look at the numerous AC failed accounts leaving quite a number of people nursing losses.
There are some exceptions, one of the few platforms and one of the best which kept to the rules was Growth Street, all interest, bonus and repayments made in a quick and timely manor as per the rules I signed up to also as it turned out with good quality loans. When they were closing I did ask if they was any plans to restart as myself and a few other investors were impressed by the state of the loans and adherence to the rules but they said there were no plans, perhaps they had a good incite as to what is to come.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jan 3, 2022 15:08:09 GMT
These loans represented my largest loss on P2P over 10 years. These and the Wind turbine loans woke me up to the fact I had put too much confidence in the loan selection made by platforms and led to selling out my investments in 2019. I came out of P2P with a decent return, which I would not have done if I had remained invested beyond 2019.
One of my biggest losses too. In a way it's stupid as I remember reading in one of the updates about a year after the loans started; it said something along the lines that AC was seeking a meeting with the principal wanting to clarify more precisely how the business worked. Which rang alarm bells as AC had already done a lot of work on understanding the biz, but I didn't heed those bells. Reading between the lines now, metaphorically speaking, I think AC was having trouble accepting the "facts" they were getting from the biz.
IMHO
I didnt really look too much into the background of the MTF loans other than a 100% loss on a loan of this scale is pretty concerning. However, after the Turbine Loans defaulted I started looking in detail into the background surrounding the loans and the people the loans were made to. What I found out made me decide to sell out my investments in the P2P sector apart from my holding in Zopa - which I luckily sold out in January 2020. Out of all the P2P companies I invested with Zopa was the only one I would invest in again with hindsight. I was way over exposed to P2P at one point it should never have been more than 10% of my personal wealth. I had a decade of great returns and I am very thankful that I finally woke up to the risk or I would have probably taken a pretty big hit.
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dave4
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Post by dave4 on Jan 3, 2022 17:44:15 GMT
One of my biggest losses too. In a way it's stupid as I remember reading in one of the updates about a year after the loans started; it said something along the lines that AC was seeking a meeting with the principal wanting to clarify more precisely how the business worked. Which rang alarm bells as AC had already done a lot of work on understanding the biz, but I didn't heed those bells. Reading between the lines now, metaphorically speaking, I think AC was having trouble accepting the "facts" they were getting from the biz.
IMHO
I didnt really look too much into the background of the MTF loans other than a 100% loss on a loan of this scale is pretty concerning. However, after the Turbine Loans defaulted I started looking in detail into the background surrounding the loans and the people the loans were made to. What I found out made me decide to sell out my investments in the P2P sector apart from my holding in Zopa - which I luckily sold out in January 2020. Out of all the P2P companies I invested with Zopa was the only one I would invest in again with hindsight. I was way over exposed to P2P at one point it should never have been more than 10% of my personal wealth. I had a decade of great returns and I am very thankful that I finally woke up to the risk or I would have probably taken a pretty big hit.
I have found that you learn a lot about a platform when there are issues with a loan. This was my most expensive lesson with AC
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Jan 3, 2022 18:39:53 GMT
I didnt really look too much into the background of the MTF loans other than a 100% loss on a loan of this scale is pretty concerning. However, after the Turbine Loans defaulted I started looking in detail into the background surrounding the loans and the people the loans were made to. What I found out made me decide to sell out my investments in the P2P sector apart from my holding in Zopa - which I luckily sold out in January 2020. Out of all the P2P companies I invested with Zopa was the only one I would invest in again with hindsight. I was way over exposed to P2P at one point it should never have been more than 10% of my personal wealth. I had a decade of great returns and I am very thankful that I finally woke up to the risk or I would have probably taken a pretty big hit.
I have found that you learn a lot about a platform when there are issues with a loan. This was my most expensive lesson with AC Indeed you do but you learn far more in my opinion if you do some DD on the platform itself before lending a penny in any loan. Apart from the normal platform guarantees, promises, offerings of the earth, moon and stars, look into the dormant and current number of other directorships these platforms 'professionals' are involved in. You could be forgiven for thinking that P2P was just a hobby. Sorry (not really) but I expect my hard earned cash to be looked after more than just on a part-time basis by folks who claim extensive financial experience which doesn't stack up - it's nothing more than lies in many cases and to think they were subsequently approved by the FCA is beyond belief.
There was a post here some time ago by one of the admins or mods that had done some extensive background research on the platforms although there weren't as many in those days and his/her findings were a horror show. It was after that review, plus a bad experience with another failed platform over a simple wind turbine loan that I decided to exit. Unfortunately I can no longer find the post although it may of course have been deleted.
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