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Post by khampson on Jun 1, 2017 21:01:53 GMT
Hi, I am wanting to put £2000 in to the GGBA, as I understand it AC will not invest more than 20% into any one loan, now that means I could be putting £400 in to just one loan or worse case £400 in to 5 loans, now this does not give me much diversity, £2000 and a minimum of 5 loans, does this happen? should I be concerned about it as I know the provision fund should cover it should anything go south but I assume that the money will be locked into the account for months even years. surely it would be better to say have a maximum of £50 or at least if it does buy £400 (20%) of one loan,part of this was sold to to someone else and you buy another loan part in really spread your investment. What are your thoughts on this, Have I understood this correctly?
Thanks
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Jun 2, 2017 5:00:29 GMT
It could happen. Over time likely to spread further as repayments come in, especially if one or more allocations are in amortising loans. I've had 20% hit, but only in 1 loan at a time iirc at this time in the morning before I've had any caffeine! Ive posted my GBBA allocations in threads around here somewhere historically, as has duck. I've not done it for a while, so may have a look over the weekend.
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Post by peerlessperil on Jun 2, 2017 7:41:13 GMT
I've had some detailed correspondence with AC over the workings of the GBBA and in my view the diversification it offers is insufficient given that the provision fund is discretionary.
There are scenarios where you invest your cash and the GBBA immediately puts 20% of your cash into one loan (potentially a loan available in the secondary market that meets the criteria) whilst leaving the remainder of your cash uninvested. If the investor loses patience or redeploys/withdraws some cash you can easily end up with a weighting in excess of 20%. The GBBA will then try to sell it down to 20%, but only if the secondary market permits....(and the queue may be quite long). I observed at one point that nearly 30% of my GBBA was invested in a single loan that I had steered clear of as I was building up a manual portfolio. Not what I had expected.
Interestingly the 20% isn't mentioned as a hard cap anywhere in the Ts&Cs that I could find - it is merely mentioned in an example.
I personally got rid of all my GBBA allocation and built a much more diversified portfolio of loans manually. The added diversification in my view outweighs the value of the AC discretionary provision fund. Of course this is subjective and depends on the loans you pick etc.
I am generally favourably disposed towards AC and it is one of my larger p2p platforms, but I feel the GBBA is a product that is insufficiently explained, and a much riskier proposition than I suspect most investors appreciate.
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duck
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Post by duck on Jun 4, 2017 7:31:40 GMT
As jonah has said I monitor GBBA holdings, I run two small accounts personal and wife. My account top 5 #441 18.25% #327 9.923% #227 8.631% #413 7.896% #388 5.561% The rest of the total investment is spread over a further 78 loans although a fair number of those hold only shrapnel well below 0.0001p My wife's account top 5 #441 18.68% #168 10.762% #413 6.754% #295 6.750% #227 5.740% The rest of the total investment is spread over a further 99 loans although a fair number of those hold only shrapnel well below 0.0001p Whilst it is not an exact art dripping cash into the account rather than dumping everything in avoids over exposure to individual loans. Both of the accounts hold a couple of 'distressed' loans.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Jun 4, 2017 11:51:38 GMT
For comparison with duck , my GBBA top 5 holdings: 413 - 14.08% (pretty sure this was 20% at one point, but capital repayments have helped reduce this concentration) 327 - 10.38% 336 - 8.20% 227 - 7.48% 388 - 5.97% 19 holdings have 1% or more. 101 holdings in total currently, 134 holdings ever. Currently 2 holdings are having 'issues', 208 and 330. Both of which I wasn't in on the MLIA (but had been previously). Total percentage for these two holding 3.5%, i.e. half the annual interest. In comparison to duck top entry in both accounts, my holding in 441 is only my 12 largest, mainly due to it being made up mostly of reinvested interest I would suspect.
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Post by df on Jun 4, 2017 14:15:35 GMT
Hi, I am wanting to put £2000 in to the GGBA, as I understand it AC will not invest more than 20% into any one loan, now that means I could be putting £400 in to just one loan or worse case £400 in to 5 loans, now this does not give me much diversity, £2000 and a minimum of 5 loans, does this happen? should I be concerned about it as I know the provision fund should cover it should anything go south but I assume that the money will be locked into the account for months even years. surely it would be better to say have a maximum of £50 or at least if it does buy £400 (20%) of one loan,part of this was sold to to someone else and you buy another loan part in really spread your investment. What are your thoughts on this, Have I understood this correctly? Thanks Instead of investing £2000 in one go, you can invest £50. When your £50 is allocated add another £50 and so on. It will take some time to do it this way, but you will achieve much better level of diversification. Make sure that your uninvested cash is kept in QAA so it is earning 3.75% whilst waiting.
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mary
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Post by mary on Jun 4, 2017 14:46:45 GMT
Hi, I am wanting to put £2000 in to the GGBA, as I understand it AC will not invest more than 20% into any one loan, now that means I could be putting £400 in to just one loan or worse case £400 in to 5 loans, now this does not give me much diversity, £2000 and a minimum of 5 loans, does this happen? should I be concerned about it as I know the provision fund should cover it should anything go south but I assume that the money will be locked into the account for months even years. surely it would be better to say have a maximum of £50 or at least if it does buy £400 (20%) of one loan,part of this was sold to to someone else and you buy another loan part in really spread your investment. What are your thoughts on this, Have I understood this correctly? Thanks Instead of investing £2000 in one go, you can invest £50. When your £50 is allocated add another £50 and so on. It will take some time to do it this way, but you will achieve much better level of diversification. Make sure that your uninvested cash is kept in QAA so it is earning 3.75% whilst waiting. This does not guarantee diversification, as I tried it over a period of months. I found that each time I was being allocated a portion of the same loan, so after many deposits over a period I still had a near 20% exposure to one loan. When I checked the details it was certainly one I would have avoided at all costs. Therefore I decided to sell out completely, however this is not as simple as claimed. I was returned ~80% after 7 days, 95% after a month, and 99.9% after 3 months, but still have "shrapnel" left that is stuck, presumably due to a default. Therefore the claimed benefits do not, IMO, outweigh the significant drawbacks!
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 4, 2017 15:51:25 GMT
IMO the main (only?) benefit (of GBBA, or GEIA for that matter) is that this is a 'fire and forget' account, as opposed to the MLIA which needs constant manual tending (and which frequently finds itself with nowhere worth investing). If you want to achieve some particular level of diversification, or avoid certain loans, or even know WTH you actually have your money in, this/these are not the way to go.
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Post by df on Jun 4, 2017 17:24:09 GMT
Instead of investing £2000 in one go, you can invest £50. When your £50 is allocated add another £50 and so on. It will take some time to do it this way, but you will achieve much better level of diversification. Make sure that your uninvested cash is kept in QAA so it is earning 3.75% whilst waiting. This does not guarantee diversification, as I tried it over a period of months. I found that each time I was being allocated a portion of the same loan, so after many deposits over a period I still had a near 20% exposure to one loan. When I checked the details it was certainly one I would have avoided at all costs. Therefore I decided to sell out completely, however this is not as simple as claimed. I was returned ~80% after 7 days, 95% after a month, and 99.9% after 3 months, but still have "shrapnel" left that is stuck, presumably due to a default. Therefore the claimed benefits do not, IMO, outweigh the significant drawbacks! Drip feeding worked for me. I think it depends on how many loans are in the pool at the time. But I agree, it wasn't a good advice.
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Post by peerlessperil on Jun 5, 2017 23:02:00 GMT
Drip feeding is no guarantee of diversification.
If a large amount of a loan that meets the GBBA criteria is sitting around in the secondary market (probably because people aren't desperately keen, or it is close to maturity) then the GBBA will continue to mop it up until the holding reaches 20% of the total value of your GBBA account (i.e. including allocated but uninvested cash).
Unless you have a very high opinion of discretionary provision funds I would steer clear of the GBBA. Build up a portfolio in the MLIA instead. Takes longer, but you know where you stand.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jun 6, 2017 8:13:38 GMT
I am not sure the Auto Investment accounts are worth it. I would rather control the diversification and allocation of my own portfolio than have the discretionary provisions fund - which seems to be far less important than the security the loans are held against. I have a combination of the 30 day account and the manual account. I take money out of the 30 day to put in the manual investment account over time.
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Post by gidoppp01 on Jun 6, 2017 12:33:42 GMT
20% may sounds scary. However, Assetz capital is all about liquidity and provisional fund. I am happy to invest GGBA as long as the fund is matched. The matching speed in GGBA varies, which annoys me; in terms of selling, I am quite impressed with GGBA.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 6, 2017 12:45:48 GMT
If provision funds have to be scrapped to achieve full FCA approval, it seems that the whole Assetz setup will crumble and only the original MLIA will survive.
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happy
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Post by happy on Jun 6, 2017 18:47:15 GMT
If provision funds have to be scrapped to achieve full FCA approval, it seems that the whole Assetz setup will crumble and only the original MLIA will survive. I have to say I do not understand why so many posters keep on saying that PFs have to go to get full FCA authorisation. Both Lending Works and Landbay, two of the first platforms to get FCA approval and now both offering IFISAs, both have PFs and Lending Works also provides an element of default insurance to boot. Surely it is more about transparency of the investment and how the PF is administered than the actual existence of the PF? If is was just down to the existence of the PF as some are suggesting then they would have all gone before achieving authorisation.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Jun 6, 2017 19:39:36 GMT
IMO the main (only?) benefit (of GBBA, or GEIA for that matter) is that this is a 'fire and forget' account, as opposed to the MLIA which needs constant manual tending (and which frequently finds itself with nowhere worth investing). If you want to achieve some particular level of diversification, or avoid certain loans, or even know WTH you actually have your money in, this/these are not the way to go. GEIA mainly holds 8% turbines, so 7% with protection fund makes sense to me. Point taken about GBBA and I will act accordingly and thanks to the OP for the alert
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