coop
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Post by coop on Jun 27, 2019 10:10:10 GMT
I’m puzzled by the statement in the pointless update that says “Until we have solid evidence from the Borrower or his Broker of a solid proposal for repayment, we will continue to establish our position and provide further updates accordingly.” especially the bit about “establish our position”. What does that mean on a loan nearly a year overdue? Meaningless nonsense. "continue to establish our position" = do nothing and hope the situation improves
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 27, 2019 10:40:55 GMT
a fair and interesting point - if not a tad worrying especially for the 3rd charge holders - think this one will go to the video referees! I don't know this area (looks wonderful) but the £3m strikes me as far too high (double the true worth?) - not that that this has ever happened before with FS.
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tony9239
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Post by tony9239 on Jun 27, 2019 15:11:23 GMT
Well this one has ran aground in a rather familiar and predictable way. They've been allowed to repeatedly roll up interest without paying and now it's looking like they don't have a plan to repay the debt. They've lent out just under £700k now and that's after a £900k first charge; and they have had it marketed nationally for a long time at £3m with no real interest. Being generous and assuming the £900k doesn't have any outstanding interest they need to recoup about £1.74m after legal and other fees in order to repay capital and interest. I have no idea what a realistic price for a property like this but it seems £3m wasn't close so maybe £2m ish? It's also another example of despite being due to finish a year ago and seemingly admitting the borrower doesnt have a "solid proposal for repayment" they still won't default the loan. What puzzles me is why the £900k 1st charge holder hasn't already defaulted it. All FS need to do then is tag along. This happened recently on a three storey end of terrace office unit in central Cardiff and it all got sorted & repaid (inc interest) in under 6 months. Would be nice to see that repeated here.
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thedog
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Post by thedog on Jun 27, 2019 17:18:07 GMT
Do we know borrower is in breach of the 1st charge and therefore could be defaulted? Possibly their interest is being paid, not past their loan maturity date etc.
I guess they might also take the view that in a consensual sale their money is safe but not necessarilly in an enforcement. Pure speculation on my part clearly...
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 27, 2019 18:28:36 GMT
If this one is worth £3m smackers then why don't FS call in the loan - granted the first charge has priority but surely there will be plenty of cash left over for FS? In my experience high net worth individuals aren't stupid and if they see a newly completed property empty for any period of time they will smell blood and go for the kill...
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jun 27, 2019 21:12:54 GMT
If this one is worth £3m smackers then why don't FS call in the loan - granted the first charge has priority but surely there will be plenty of cash left over for FS? In my experience high net worth individuals aren't stupid and if they see a newly completed property empty for any period of time they will smell blood and go for the kill... It's Scotland. Property related stuff is big-time different. (Clearly, I'm an expert  ) FS may not have an option to call in the loan, depending on how the inter-creditor agreement was structured, hence comments like: " We are seeking advice on our position as our Loan is under both English and Scottish jurisdiction which unfortunately conflict in their approaches." " We have taken advice on our position and the loan does come under Scottish Jurisdiction." "... we will continue to establish our position and provide further updates accordingly." Additionally, I suspect the 'first charge' holder's position is being sought - ie: 'Is your borrower servicing your interest?'; 'Would you be so kind as to please tell us what the current redemption figure is on the Borrowers facility with you?' It may be that FS' best option is to buy out the first charge holder. With their new 'backers' in place, I wonder if that's on their minds...  (I'm not 'wondering' too long or hard - best result would probably to list it for £2.5M and take somewhere around the £2M mark. So probably 3 months away from any meaningful update.)
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 28, 2019 7:48:15 GMT
Good point which I missed - this may help to explain what is going on here (or a smoke screen from FS?) However as I see it - this one is nearly 1 year late, anticipated refinance has not happened and now this house is no longer on the market. I think there is 12% stamp duty equivalent (LBTT) and 3% second property tax if applicable which on £3m is a fair few quid so I really question the valuation.
Looks an interesting one to me - just hope the referee does not call offside.
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hector
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Post by hector on Jun 28, 2019 8:22:51 GMT
Presumably the law in Scotland has changed between when FS were carrying out their pre-loan DD & now, as otherwise that would have been apparent before money changed hands.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 28, 2019 9:41:02 GMT
I have been thinking about this one as I don't like being puzzled.
If the first charge is being paid and FS can't call in the loan (unlike in England) then FS are not in a good position - just a thought as I know nothing about UK law and even less about Scottish law...
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jun 28, 2019 10:39:21 GMT
Good point which I missed - this may help to explain what is going on here (or a smoke screen from FS?) However as I see it - this one is nearly 1 year late, anticipated refinance has not happened and now this house is no longer on the market. I think there is 12% stamp duty equivalent (LBTT) and 3% second property tax if applicable which on £3m is a fair few quid so I really question the valuation. Looks an interesting one to me - just hope the referee does not call offside. Keep up to date Adrian the property tax is now 4% on anything above £40K so even worse
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Post by mrclondon on Nov 13, 2019 14:16:50 GMT
Loans defaulted on the website.
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Post by overthehill on Jun 3, 2020 18:38:16 GMT
This was put up for sale at 1.875 million in January, there was an article in the Scotsman, I assume it didn't sell as it's gone and as we're waiting for a court hearing.
The primary loan will be lucky to get back 50% capital and the supplemental will be a write off again.
The valuation of 3 million again just pie in the sky when our money was handed over.
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