c88dnf
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Post by c88dnf on Aug 16, 2017 17:43:54 GMT
The other factor is that FC as a platform is very safe, and so well worth including for very low platform risk and moderate returns.
I guess that depends how you define safe and "low platform risk". £18M loss in the year to 31/12/2015 and a cumulative loss over its then 6 year trading history of £38M. The company in which we invest is sustained by cash inflow from its parent company, Funding Circle Holdings Limited, which made a loss a smidgen under £37M for the year ended 31/12/2015 on turnover of £32M (loss margin 116%, slightly better than 2014's 132% loss margin). All data from the annual reports stored at Companies House, available to view for free on their website. The Directors state in both companies' reports that they consider them to be a going concern. As the question was choosing between FC and Zopa, I should, in fairness, point out that Zopa's accounts also make dismal reading, though with only £31.1M of accumulated losses to 31/12/2015.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 17, 2017 9:57:32 GMT
This is very interesting - to be honest this was my conclusion but I was not sure was reading the accounts properly! Since FC started in this game there was been a myriad of new entrants
and doubtless some will fail. Regardless of how profitable FC is or isn't I can see the P2P market being shaken by a crisis of confidence in the short term and I have no idea if FC could weather this. As the interest they charge is pre-loaded then I guess a sudden, if short-term, loss of new income would not be good news for them.
As I have said before I am not convinced their business model is sound and I feel they could easily be out-manoeuvred should Virgin or similar enter this market....I complete on my French house next month using the money I have withdrawn from FC - time will tell if this was good move!
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Aug 17, 2017 12:01:49 GMT
Don't pay too much atention to a fast growing company making losses. Amazon rarely post a profit but is one of the most valuable companies on the planet.
Anyway, for those interested I have bunged a few grand into autobid with the advanced settings altered to give high rates on the secondary market. The SME investment trust is of interest but not until it falls to a decent discount.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 17, 2017 12:43:39 GMT
The other factor is that FC as a platform is very safe, and so well worth including for very low platform risk and moderate returns.
I guess that depends how you define safe and "low platform risk". £18M loss in the year to 31/12/2015 and a cumulative loss over its then 6 year trading history of £38M. The company in which we invest is sustained by cash inflow from its parent company, Funding Circle Holdings Limited, which made a loss a smidgen under £37M for the year ended 31/12/2015 on turnover of £32M (loss margin 116%, slightly better than 2014's 132% loss margin). All data from the annual reports stored at Companies House, available to view for free on their website. The Directors state in both companies' reports that they consider them to be a going concern. As the question was choosing between FC and Zopa, I should, in fairness, point out that Zopa's accounts also make dismal reading, though with only £31.1M of accumulated losses to 31/12/2015. This is true and see my similar comments on another thread, but the loan book is a very large and solid. If it's a choice between Zopa and FC then Zopa would be ruled out by me because it stokes personal debt rather than supporting UK business. I think we need more personal debt like a hole in the head, but other people make different choices. Both solid platforms for lending on. I also lend through Ablrate, but that is a white knuckle ride compared with FC and Zopa.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Aug 18, 2017 8:38:50 GMT
Why so slow? Deposited £3k yesterday in autolend - and so far I've got 3 loans! £60.
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Aug 18, 2017 8:45:16 GMT
Why so slow? Deposited £3k yesterday in autolend - and so far I've got 3 loans! £60. "There are always decent loans available via SM. It depends on your own risk appetite what level of returns you target but if you pay modest, say upto 0.6% premiums you can invest a 4/5 figure sum virtually immediately in a good spread of solid loans.." alternatively you can take your approach & ask those very same questions - each to their own  Seriously, good luck I would be interested in any future updates as to your progress & results.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Aug 18, 2017 13:11:50 GMT
Why so slow? Deposited £3k yesterday in autolend - and so far I've got 3 loans! £60. Well, you said yesterday that you'd gone for "autobid with the advanced settings altered to give high rates on the secondary market". So compare the rates you're looking for with those actually available on the SM. Generally, you'll find very few (often none at all!) loan parts going at par value - almost everything is at a premium, ie at less than the starting rate for that loan.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Aug 18, 2017 16:03:12 GMT
Things on the SM at par (or discount) are generally selected (by others) to be rubbish that you wouldn't want. Bidding on the primary ('auction') market, using autobid, you are unlikely to land any Es or even Ds unless they are very large, or really obvious rubbish - anything decent is eaten by bots/flippers and resold at a premium. That's why it's hard ('impossible') to build a decent high rate portfolio using autobodge. You can do it manually especially if you ignore the 'need to be in 100 loans' diversification rule), but it requires work.
All of which is why I'm not invested here any more .. 8>.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 18, 2017 16:13:54 GMT
Why so slow? Deposited £3k yesterday in autolend - and so far I've got 3 loans! £60. "There are always decent loans available via SM. It depends on your own risk appetite what level of returns you target but if you pay modest, say upto 0.6% premiums you can invest a 4/5 figure sum virtually immediately in a good spread of solid loans.." alternatively you can take your approach & ask those very same questions - each to their own Seriously, good luck I would be interested in any future updates as to your progress & results. Just for info, advanced Autobid will also buy at a discount, but such parts are generally only available in loans to Hen's Teeth Ltd. Or possibly very dodgy stuff.
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james21
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Post by james21 on Aug 18, 2017 18:37:47 GMT
Looks like you are in the learning curve as I was a year ago. You will in time come to the conclusion that both are rubbish, as I did and you can do a lot better elsewhere
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Aug 19, 2017 8:26:17 GMT
"There are always decent loans available via SM. It depends on your own risk appetite what level of returns you target but if you pay modest, say upto 0.6% premiums you can invest a 4/5 figure sum virtually immediately in a good spread of solid loans.." alternatively you can take your approach & ask those very same questions - each to their own Seriously, good luck I would be interested in any future updates as to your progress & results. Just for info, advanced Autobid will also buy at a discount, but such parts are generally only available in loans to Hen's Teeth Ltd. Or possibly very dodgy stuff. So let me get this right ( remember I am new to FC). Someone makes a loan to a business. One or two months later they decide it's Hens Tooth Ltd. and put it on SM. Er, how or why? Did they not do DD in the first instance? I thought autobid cannot pick up loans where payments have been missed? So how do you decide a borrower is a dog after a month or so with no new information ( I assume?). To a novice it doesn't make sense.
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bg
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Post by bg on Aug 19, 2017 8:47:33 GMT
Just for info, advanced Autobid will also buy at a discount, but such parts are generally only available in loans to Hen's Teeth Ltd. Or possibly very dodgy stuff. So let me get this right ( remember I am new to FC). Someone makes a loan to a business. One or two months later they decide it's Hens Tooth Ltd. and put it on SM. Er, how or why? Did they not do DD in the first instance? I thought autobid cannot pick up loans where payments have been missed? So how do you decide a borrower is a dog after a month or so with no new information ( I assume?). To a novice it doesn't make sense. They can't. It's very easy with hindight to say it was obvious a loan would go bad....but if someone is willing to post X loan id's of loans they have analysed and predicted will go into default in the next 6 months and then a lot of them do, I will conclude that they are a financial genius - not before. Until then I will stick with my belief that there is insufficient data to do proper DD on these companies (unless you get actually contact the companies involved for more info) and that FC credit checks are better than anything we can do. The best tactic is to run a diversified portfolio.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 19, 2017 9:07:13 GMT
Just for info, advanced Autobid will also buy at a discount, but such parts are generally only available in loans to Hen's Teeth Ltd. Or possibly very dodgy stuff. So let me get this right ( remember I am new to FC). Someone makes a loan to a business. One or two months later they decide it's Hens Tooth Ltd. and put it on SM. Er, how or why? Did they not do DD in the first instance? I thought autobid cannot pick up loans where payments have been missed? So how do you decide a borrower is a dog after a month or so with no new information ( I assume?). To a novice it doesn't make sense. Usually either because they've had a couple of months of high-rate interest (E / D / C) and now want to sell the loan part on at a premium to bank a further profit (rinse and repeat), or they worry that such high risk loans may not be relied upon to make more than one or two payments, or a combination of the two.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 19, 2017 9:20:03 GMT
Just for info, advanced Autobid will also buy at a discount, but such parts are generally only available in loans to Hen's Teeth Ltd. Or possibly very dodgy stuff. So let me get this right ( remember I am new to FC). Someone makes a loan to a business. One or two months later they decide it's Hens Tooth Ltd. and put it on SM. Er, how or why? Did they not do DD in the first instance? I thought autobid cannot pick up loans where payments have been missed? So how do you decide a borrower is a dog after a month or so with no new information ( I assume?). To a novice it doesn't make sense. I agree with bg, and Steve. When I was speaking about hen's teeth I was meaning that discounts are rare. It was not always so, especially in the days of cashback. Concerning due diligence, I agree that time spent in assessing the business's prospects of repaying for five years, based on the FC information, is probably time wasted. However, making decisions about SM purchases based on the repayment history is not time wasted. It is true that you cannot sell a loan where the repayments are not up to date, but you can sell a loan where the repayments have been erratic, or where there has been a 'credit event' which has resulted in the risk band being temporarily removed and then reinstated. Many lenders sell loans which have been late with a payment and have recovered, or which have been stopped form trading for a while because of a CCJ or something. You can reduce losses by doing that, and by avoiding buying such loans on the SM. They are the ones which may well be at par. In the past I had a rule which said that I had to sell any loan which came back from a late payment, on the basis that this was an indicator of stress. It served me and others very well. That rule did not apply to loans which had had credit events, and foolishly I kept one which had a large 'unexpected' CCJ when I could have sold it. It is now my largest loss.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Aug 19, 2017 10:14:45 GMT
Many thanks for taking the time to educate me in FC loans.
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Seriously, good luck I would be interested in any future updates as to your progress & results.
