ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Mar 22, 2018 10:39:58 GMT
15%, interest on account, and additional clarity on potential exit. What is not to like?
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nw99
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Post by nw99 on Mar 22, 2018 10:50:08 GMT
Buying the dips here great yield 19% at 99
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Post by investorman on Mar 22, 2018 11:45:28 GMT
15%, interest on account, and additional clarity on potential exit. What is not to like? I am still new to this, bit it seems that they are paying us out of the money borrowed, likely not in a position to repay on time and still 'in discussions' about the funding to exit our loan? The original borrowing proposal said: The Company will finance the loan settlement payment. From the development finance loan which is only available to the Company once they own the whole site (i.e. post of acquisition of the Phase 2, 3 & 4 land). But they now own all the land and still no exit loan, just another short term Ablrate loan on the horizon?
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Mar 22, 2018 12:00:43 GMT
15%, interest on account, and additional clarity on potential exit. What is not to like? I am still new to this, bit it seems that they are paying us out of the money borrowed, likely not in a position to repay on time and still 'in discussions' about the funding to exit our loan? The original borrowing proposal said: The Company will finance the loan settlement payment. From the development finance loan which is only available to the Company once they own the whole site (i.e. post of acquisition of the Phase 2, 3 & 4 land). But they now own all the land and still no exit loan, just another short term Ablrate loan on the horizon? Loans/developments of this size do tend to over run - 5m is a small amount of time compared to some of the over runs I have seen Progress seems to have been made Interest is held on account ACF have put in a further £500k (unless i missed that originally - I presume subordinate to AB 1st charge) 15% is indicative of the risk
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Post by investorman on Mar 22, 2018 12:58:50 GMT
Yes but what I mean is are they not looking for an £8.5m loan of which £1.3m will repay Ablrate lenders? They dont just want a £1.3m dev loan as that would just pay Ablrate back and not actually fund any development?
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nick
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Post by nick on Mar 23, 2018 17:23:09 GMT
So it looks like the loan in the pipeline for early next week could well be the refinancing of the phase 1 loan......
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 23, 2018 17:55:21 GMT
So it looks like the loan in the pipeline for early next week could well be the refinancing of the phase 1 loan...... Which means not 80. 80 is extended by 5m and the new one refinances another and presumably pays the fees and interest on extended 80. The new one will have to be at least 15% to lenders - which is tough because the effective rate for the borrower on 80 is about 24%. These delays are not cheap. The one next week may be the new borrower. I hope so.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Mar 27, 2018 18:01:59 GMT
So from today's email we see a "new" loan of £1.5M to the same borrower, with the same security. If this is essentially a renewal of the original loan 80 (which would be fair enough if the borrower feels they need a few more months) then I'm not sure how I recycle my investment from the first loan into the new one ... any suggestions? I don't have significant "spare" cash on the platform and can't add any more this tax year...
OTOH if this is a separate loan and the first one is to be kept open then it won't be getting any more of my dosh as I would be breaking my loan limit.
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nw99
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Post by nw99 on Mar 27, 2018 19:40:49 GMT
First one at a discount no point to buy the new one at par
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Mar 27, 2018 20:22:35 GMT
So from today's email we see a "new" loan of £1.5M to the same borrower, with the same security. If this is essentially a renewal of the original loan 80 (which would be fair enough if the borrower feels they need a few more months) then I'm not sure how I recycle my investment from the first loan into the new one ... any suggestions? I don't have significant "spare" cash on the platform and can't add any more this tax year... OTOH if this is a separate loan and the first one is to be kept open then it won't be getting any more of my dosh as I would be breaking my loan limit. AIUI the current loan is for phase 2, 3 & 4. The new loan is for phase 1. In this context, each phase is effectively a different parcel of land.
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 27, 2018 21:07:15 GMT
So from today's email we see a "new" loan of £1.5M to the same borrower, with the same security. If this is essentially a renewal of the original loan 80 (which would be fair enough if the borrower feels they need a few more months) then I'm not sure how I recycle my investment from the first loan into the new one ... any suggestions? I don't have significant "spare" cash on the platform and can't add any more this tax year... OTOH if this is a separate loan and the first one is to be kept open then it won't be getting any more of my dosh as I would be breaking my loan limit. AIUI the current loan is for phase 2, 3 & 4. The new loan is for phase 1. In this context, each phase is effectively a different parcel of land. That's right. We were told in the proposal for 80 that phase 1 would need refinancing in Feb 18. We were not told that Ablrate lenders would be expected to do it. Probably the intention was to have the development finance in place and to repay both loans about now. 80 had a min period of 6m. Ablrate lenders are now asked to cover £2.8M until the end of the year. Two major questions. Why cannot the existing lender provide a refinance, or some other platform? And what are the requirements set by the development finance lenders to enable our exit? They are talking and have met some of the pre-conditions - a little more please for £2.8M.
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sapphire
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Post by sapphire on Mar 28, 2018 12:07:49 GMT
Ostensibly the risk profile of 1000080 appears to be similar to 1000098 being offered today.
But £190K+ of 1000098 has been subscribed in the past few hours when more than £10K of 1000080 is available at a discount on the SM suggesting that the latter is riskier. Is this the case?
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Mar 28, 2018 12:15:08 GMT
Ostensibly the risk profile of 1000080 appears to be similar to 1000098 being offered today. But £190K+ of 1000098 has been subscribed in the past few hours when more than £10K of 1000080 is available at a discount on the SM suggesting that the latter is riskier. Is this the case? IMO the ultimate project and development risk is the same. However, #98 will offer instant returns until when / if drawn down - in other circumstances that might be seen to make it 'safer'. However, interest for #80 is held on account, so that doesn't really apply here. I am worried that #98 won't fill. The platform has made a smart move by launching this before the end of the tax year - some may want to invest during this tax year, and there is likely to be plenty left in to the new tax year. I think the biggest risk to the project will be the difficulty in attracting refinance.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Mar 28, 2018 12:16:46 GMT
Ostensibly the risk profile of 1000080 appears to be similar to 1000098 being offered today. But £190K+ of 1000098 has been subscribed in the past few hours when more than £10K of 1000080 is available at a discount on the SM suggesting that the latter is riskier. Is this the case? You cant see how much of 80 has been sold, just what is currently for sale Conversely you can see all investments in 98 Additionally 80 has been filled (the full £1.3M loan amount), where as 98 has only filled £190k+ There both to the same borrower and similar LTVs and loan structure 80 does have a discount over 98 currently
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 28, 2018 13:40:29 GMT
80 is much more risky, until 98 is filled and drawn down. Then the risks of default are the same.
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