snowmobile
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Post by snowmobile on Aug 24, 2017 9:19:55 GMT
Well let's just hope FS have securely stored this one as they are supposed to. If so it shouldn't really matter. With the tight process that unbolted use I would expect them, or their valuer on their behalf, to have the painting in their hands. As an aside, in further reading of the quoted loan on FS, the valuation figure is for 2 seperate loans afaiks. Good luck getting an answer from FS on this issue. I will follow the thread with academic interest. The comment on FS, about the valuation for two separate loans, refers to the collection of vases also included in the valuation report. They are the security for loan 1298763968 to the same borrower. Edit: Vase loan has since been renewed. Current loan ref is 1179005019.
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Post by peerlessperil on Aug 24, 2017 10:18:19 GMT
FS will be posting an update on the loan later today.
Let's await the facts before jumping to conclusions as I can envisage several scenarios whereby nobody has done anything wrong here.
Those FS investors who gave a little too much respect to a heavily caveated opinion of value from an art dealer may instead wish to spend 5 seconds looking up the previous sale price. It's a bit like believing what Foxtons tell you your house is worth when they want your business?
I do prefer UB's approach however.
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ben
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Post by ben on Aug 24, 2017 11:47:22 GMT
Well it appears that either FS are lying about having the painting in their possession or that the borrower lied to UB when he said he had it in his possession. I know which of the two possibilities I would wager on. I just hope UB would have waited until they had the painting in their hands before they delivered the funds to the borrower. Unbolted had not raised the money so they could not have handed it over. Although if I was in this loan I would be selling quickly, as the borrower is obviously pretty dodgy by the sounds of it.
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micky
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Post by micky on Aug 24, 2017 12:00:29 GMT
Talk of FS lying seems to fly around very quickly. I struggle to see why some people invest and then react as we have witnessed here. Stay away from P2P is my advice.
Perhaps Ub investors should be a little concerned-
Re this comment from Magenta14-
Personally, I'd have no doubts as to whether Ub would have listed the loan prior to having scrutinized the artwork and all associated paperwork pertaining to its provenance and most recent valuations.
A quick look on Ub's homepage will witness Ub appraising a piece of art.
Ub inspire confidence.'
Was the loan in the system or just an investment in the pipeline?
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bg
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Post by bg on Aug 24, 2017 12:05:05 GMT
Well it appears that either FS are lying about having the painting in their possession or that the borrower lied to UB when he said he had it in his possession. I know which of the two possibilities I would wager on. I just hope UB would have waited until they had the painting in their hands before they delivered the funds to the borrower. Unbolted had not raised the money so they could not have handed it over. Although if I was in this loan I would be selling quickly, as the borrower is obviously pretty dodgy by the sounds of it. Don't care. As long as FS have the painting the only thing that concerns me is the valuation. That's the nature of pawn loans.
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ben
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Post by ben on Aug 24, 2017 13:32:38 GMT
Unbolted had not raised the money so they could not have handed it over. Although if I was in this loan I would be selling quickly, as the borrower is obviously pretty dodgy by the sounds of it. Don't care. As long as FS have the painting the only thing that concerns me is the valuation. That's the nature of pawn loans. The nature of pawn loans yes, but it looks like the borrower may have another copy of the art. If he was trying to pawn it to unbolted too, so it may just be that the one FS is also a fake.
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bg
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Post by bg on Aug 24, 2017 13:37:16 GMT
Don't care. As long as FS have the painting the only thing that concerns me is the valuation. That's the nature of pawn loans. The nature of pawn loans yes, but it looks like the borrower may have another copy of the art. If he was trying to pawn it to unbolted too, so it may just be that the one FS is also a fake. At this stage I would say that it looks more likely that the borrower told UB he had the painting in his posession wheras in fact it was in FS' vault.
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ben
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Post by ben on Aug 24, 2017 14:01:19 GMT
The nature of pawn loans yes, but it looks like the borrower may have another copy of the art. If he was trying to pawn it to unbolted too, so it may just be that the one FS is also a fake. At this stage I would say that it looks more likely that the borrower told UB he had the painting in his posession wheras in fact it was in FS' vault. Unless he is completely stupid and expected to be given a loan without even having to show the painting or it taken as security, he must have had something to show unbolted so either he was planning on raiding FS safe or he was planning on showing unbolted a fake, so it could be possible that FS already has a fake to. If I was in the loan I would rather take the hit now then risk dealing with a dodgy borrower.
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bg
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Post by bg on Aug 24, 2017 14:04:30 GMT
At this stage I would say that it looks more likely that the borrower told UB he had the painting in his posession wheras in fact it was in FS' vault. Unless he is completely stupid and expected to be given a loan without even having to show the painting or it taken as security, he must have had something to show unbolted so either he was planning on raiding FS safe or he was planning on showing unbolted a fake, so it could be possible that FS already has a fake to. If I was in the loan I would rather take the hit now then risk dealing with a dodgy borrower. He showed them a valuation he had from Christies. Unbolted never had the painting.
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ben
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Post by ben on Aug 24, 2017 14:37:03 GMT
Unless he is completely stupid and expected to be given a loan without even having to show the painting or it taken as security, he must have had something to show unbolted so either he was planning on raiding FS safe or he was planning on showing unbolted a fake, so it could be possible that FS already has a fake to. If I was in the loan I would rather take the hit now then risk dealing with a dodgy borrower. He showed them a valuation he had from Christies. Unbolted never had the painting. I doubt he was expecting to get a loan just on that, he must have had something else for unbolted when it came time for the loan to go live.
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alison
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Sanctuary!!
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Post by alison on Aug 24, 2017 14:56:41 GMT
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snowmobile
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Post by snowmobile on Aug 24, 2017 16:02:30 GMT
Update now posted by FS:
Still seems odd to me. If it was a straightforward refinancing why didn't the borrower or their agent just say so? Unbolted certainly seemed unaware of the existence of the FS loan.
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ben
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Post by ben on Aug 24, 2017 17:18:18 GMT
Update now posted by FS: Still seems odd to me. If it was a straightforward refinancing why didn't the borrower or their agent just say so? Unbolted certainly seemed unaware of the existence of the FS loan. If it was just for refinancing then is no reason unbolted would have not done if the asset was as described.
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n
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Yet another Nick
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Post by n on Aug 24, 2017 17:26:50 GMT
That is a catch 22. FS wouldn't give it back without being paid back and Unb wouldn't provide the money without having the painting.
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stub8535
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personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Aug 24, 2017 17:49:46 GMT
The possession of the painting is irrelevent as it was not the reason for pulling the loan on ub. I wish fs lenders well and hope you continue to have your loan serviced by the borrower.
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