hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jun 21, 2018 8:42:05 GMT
Net return currently down to around zero as I’ve got 11k in defaulted loans 'Well I still think moneything are great' (my italics - your quote). All I can say is that you must be very, very easy to please? Or is there some form of perverse inverse relationship here - the less you make, the happier you become with a platform? Defaults are not losses and also not really within MTs control. I might be less pleased if I make a large loss but that seems unlikely. I was also happy to be able to offset my “losses” against taxes and pay taxes this year instead on the reclaimed amounts. Honestly, I don’t know why you ever invested in high risk high return P2P in the first place. It was always going to end badly for you based on your unrealistic expectations. On my P2P portfolio I am way ahead of my goal of 7% net returns so yes I am happy, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like to see things improve, valuations mainly.
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Jun 21, 2018 9:24:56 GMT
'Well I still think moneything are great' (my italics - your quote). All I can say is that you must be very, very easy to please? Or is there some form of perverse inverse relationship here - the less you make, the happier you become with a platform? Defaults are not losses and also not really within MTs control. I might be less pleased if I make a large loss but that seems unlikely. I was also happy to be able to offset my “losses” against taxes and pay taxes this year instead on the reclaimed amounts. Honestly, I don’t know why you ever invested in high risk high return P2P in the first place. It was always going to end badly for you based on your unrealistic expectations. On my P2P portfolio I am way ahead of my goal of 7% net returns so yes I am happy, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like to see things improve, valuations mainly. 1. Whilst defaults are not losses - they have an increasing tendency to become so - eventually (and that's even with 'relatively' low 60/65% LTV) - see many recent examples on multiple platforms. 2. Offsetting losses against tax is (IMHO) a way many reconcile and justify making losses - personally, I'd rather make a profit (but call me 'old fashioned'). 3. Please - spare me the patronising 'I don't know why you ever got involved in high risk P2P' - same reason as you - to make money in a near zero interest rate environment. I did very well indeed in the earlier years of P2P - but the tide has now well and truly turned. Furthermore, I believe those with high expectations help to elevate quality - the reciprocal is also true. 4. Overall, I have actually done significantly better than you from P2P (an element of being an early player when interest rates were much, much higher - and some good luck likely) - but I now consider the risk/reward ratio is no longer viable (and I'm not alone).
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empirica
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Post by empirica on Jun 21, 2018 20:03:35 GMT
Irrespective of the eventual outcome here with regard the final losses (or not? (bursts out laughing)) my fundamental issue with MT remains. I invested in this loan based on incorrect data which was published on the MT web-site by MT - it is they (and nobody else) who is responsible for the accuracy and veracity of what they publish on their web-site.
Consequently, until there is an apology for their error (and nobody here is arguing it wasn't an error) and an undertaking to compensate for any eventual losses (and as you say - if there are no losses then they will have nothing to lose by making such an undertaking - will they?) - then I will avoid MT and advise against using this platform.
Completely agree, I have put all of my loans for sale but the queue is horendous Is it (still) the case that MT pay interest on queued SM loan parts? (Or am I confusing MT with another platform?)
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 21, 2018 20:09:54 GMT
Completely agree, I have put all of my loans for sale but the queue is horendous Is it (still) the case that MT pay interest on queued SM loan parts? (Or am I confusing MT with another platform?) Yes, they do
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Jun 21, 2018 21:44:52 GMT
Is it (still) the case that MT pay interest on queued SM loan parts? (Or am I confusing MT with another platform?) Yes, they do This initially seemed like a super idea by MT and was a great USP of theirs - no cost for listing loans for sale - and in the earlier days that was indeed the case. However, given the overall deterioration in P2P as a concept I'm no longer so sure this is actually a sound business practice. It seems (from many posts I have seen) that buying a loan on MT for many (most?) is immediately and automatically followed by listing it for sale (to 'get a place in the queue' - at zero cost - so why not?). With the relatively good prospects of immediately buying it back again (and relisting it - again) should you actually reach the front of the queue and sell - but not in reality actually want to sell. The net result seems that we now have unnecessarily long queues for the sale of loan parts of which many are not 'genuinely' for sale - simply 'listed' for sale.
Comments?
Disclosure: I want totally out of MT asap and have now sold all my disposable loans (for reasons articulated earlier) - but still have c. £1,700 queued to sell and c. £955 tied up in 'defaulted' loans.
P.S. (Edit) I have also just sold all my AC loans (and very rapidly) - but on AC there is 1. A cost to sell (a loss of interest - so no 'phantom' sellers) and 2. The ability to offer a loan for sale at a discount (incidentally - most sold near immediately at par - I only needed to list £1K's worth of loans at a 1% discount (the minimum) to sell those quickly). These procedures and protocols facilitated a very rapid termination of my dealings with this platform.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jun 21, 2018 22:06:00 GMT
This initially seemed like a super idea by MT and was a great USP of theirs - no cost for listing loans for sale - and in the earlier days that was indeed the case. However, given the overall deterioration in P2P as a concept I'm no longer so sure this is actually a sound business practice. It seems (from many posts I have seen) that buying a loan on MT for many (most?) is immediately and automatically followed by listing it for sale (to 'get a place in the queue' - at zero cost - so why not?). With the relatively good prospects of immediately buying it back again (and relisting it - again) should you actually reach the front of the queue and sell - but not in reality actually want to sell. The net result seems that we now have unnecessarily long queues for the sale of loan parts of which many are not 'genuinely' for sale - simply 'listed' for sale.
Comments?
Disclosure: I want totally out of MT asap and have now sold all my disposable loans (for reasons articulated earlier) - but still have c. £1,700 queued to sell and c. £955 tied up in 'defaulted' loans.
P.S. (Edit) I have also just sold all my AC loans (and very rapidly) - but on AC there is 1. A cost to sell (a loss of interest - so no 'phantom' sellers) and 2. The ability to offer a loan for sale at a discount (incidentally - most sold near immediately at par - I only needed to list £1K's worth of loans at a 1% discount (the minimum) to sell those quickly). These procedures and protocols facilitated a very rapid termination of my dealings with this platform.
Is that right for AC?
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Jun 21, 2018 22:08:02 GMT
This initially seemed like a super idea by MT and was a great USP of theirs - no cost for listing loans for sale - and in the earlier days that was indeed the case. However, given the overall deterioration in P2P as a concept I'm no longer so sure this is actually a sound business practice. It seems (from many posts I have seen) that buying a loan on MT for many (most?) is immediately and automatically followed by listing it for sale (to 'get a place in the queue' - at zero cost - so why not?). With the relatively good prospects of immediately buying it back again (and relisting it - again) should you actually reach the front of the queue and sell - but not in reality actually want to sell. The net result seems that we now have unnecessarily long queues for the sale of loan parts of which many are not 'genuinely' for sale - simply 'listed' for sale.
Comments?
Disclosure: I want totally out of MT asap and have now sold all my disposable loans (for reasons articulated earlier) - but still have c. £1,700 queued to sell and c. £955 tied up in 'defaulted' loans.
P.S. (Edit) I have also just sold all my AC loans (and very rapidly) - but on AC there is 1. A cost to sell (a loss of interest - so no 'phantom' sellers) and 2. The ability to offer a loan for sale at a discount (incidentally - most sold near immediately at par - I only needed to list £1K's worth of loans at a 1% discount (the minimum) to sell those quickly). These procedures and protocols facilitated a very rapid termination of my dealings with this platform.
Is that right for AC? The los of interest is from the point of listing a loan / loan part for sale (not retrospectively).
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jun 21, 2018 23:06:41 GMT
The los of interest is from the point of listing a loan / loan part for sale (not retrospectively). Again - are you sure? I thought that AC pays interest right up until you sell (and allocates the proportion to you for the number of days you held it when that month's payment comes in).
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 21, 2018 23:38:54 GMT
There is no loss of interest on AC. It accrued to the holder of the loan until the point of sale not to the point of listing & paid on the normal payment date.
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Jun 22, 2018 6:29:27 GMT
There is no loss of interest on AC. It accrued to the holder of the loan until the point of sale not to the point of listing & paid on the normal payment date. Well if you're correct (and you likely are - I'm aware you're a knowledgeable guy) then clearly I need to re-read the rules (I always though it was the point of listing). Or to be precise I needed to - it's somewhat academic for me now as I'm withdrawing from P2P with the sole (current) exception of ABL - who I believe still offer a viable risk/reward ratio, have a well run web-site, seem a very professional outfit and have an adequate supply of loans for my new (significantly reduced) P2P needs.
I have done well from P2P over the past few years but the good times are well and truly behind us - and not too many of the seasoned P2P investors seem to disagree with that basic sentiment.
I got caught in COL - but having applied the basic investment rule of 'diversify' I had my P2P money well spread across many platforms - but still on the hook for several £k - not small beer but a lot less than some/many I suspect? However, the letter from BDO last night does make the prospect of a decent recovery look somewhat more promising - so I shall endeavour to look on the bright side in that regard.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jun 22, 2018 17:42:46 GMT
Hope you’re right. 6 figs in col for me.
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Jun 22, 2018 19:54:00 GMT
Hope you’re right. 6 figs in col for me. Crikey hazellend - I do hope you are sufficiently wealthy that those 6 figs in COL only constitute a minor (ish) proportion of your overall P2P commitment (and only a realistic proportion of your total investment portfolio)? Furthermore, I truly hope that you didn't have the proverbial 'too many eggs in one basket'? If the former then you will just have to bide your time until the process unfolds (as it will - albeit glacially) - but if the latter you will likely be having many sleepless nights until the mists begin to clear.
I wish you good luck in the coming months - I really do. And remember, at the end of the day it is only money (easy to say I know I know - I'm still jittery about my (relatively) minor investment here so I can genuinely empathise)) - but at the end of the day family and friends have infinitely greater true value.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jun 22, 2018 20:54:11 GMT
It is a lot of money but not enough to cause me any stress. We are mustachian and have saved a lot over the years.
Agree money is not worth losing sleep over. That’s why I wish people would chill a bit on these forums.
My Achilles is property moose, not because I’m going to have to take a hit, but because I feel they are beyond incompetent.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Jun 29, 2018 12:26:41 GMT
Hi MoneyThing in the update from 13/6 we were told that an offer had been accepted and that exchange was due to happen within a fortnight. I know that you undertook to inform us when this had happened, but I'm curious to know what is the reason for the delay?
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sj
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Post by sj on Jul 10, 2018 10:04:34 GMT
4 weeks now since the "exchange within a fortnight" update... MoneyThing can you give us any update at all on this please? I'd otherwise assume that it has not exchanged as planned. Bad news is better than no news at all I feel.
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